In 2023, is San Francisco closer in stature to San Diego or Los Angeles? (crime, compared)

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by Joakim3

You can't measure health, education, equality of opportunity, the state of the environment or many other indicators of the quality of life with GDP.

Right, and the Bay Area wins in all of these categories too.

Are you new to California or something?

[btownboss4]

Originally Posted by indiglo_2000

"Light hitter" is a serious stretch. It is 9th out of the 50 largest MSAs in the US by per capita GDP output (18th out of 382 overall; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...GDP_per_capita).

The far below SF thing is still true though, mainly because the SJ MSA is probably the most economically productive city entity in the history of the world (220K per capita!). That's not really a knock on LA. But as others have stated economic output is only one aspect of the stature of a city. Particularly, the Bay Area's growth economically has been so sharp and one dimensional (tech) that some of the other indicators of cultural clout aren't present.

Anyway I think the poll reflects pretty clearly my opinion on the question from the OP, that SF is still much closer to LA than it is to SD.

LA really canabalizes it’s outer MSA GDPs. Like Riverside has a GDP of 45,000. The others are quite low too like St Luis Obispo. (Which is quite wealthy) because all the rich people work in the LA Area. While this is true for other metros (like DC and Boston) where large surrounding metros have a net drain to the central metros, it’s not as bad. Providence (which locally, just isn’t that wealthy) has a higher GDP per capita than any of the LA secondary MSA’s. Same with Baltimore.

Even Akron OH is wealthier than Bakersfield.

[Joakim3]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

Right, and the Bay Area wins in all of these categories too.

Are you new to California or something?

Yes, because Bay Area's unaffordium has absolutely zero impact on health, education, equality of opportunity, QoL.

Interesting take you got there.

[Desiigner]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

Right, and the Bay Area wins in all of these categories too.

Are you new to California or something?

All?

Equality of opportunity?

All the people on the streets of SF would beg to differ.

[btownboss4]

Originally Posted by Joakim3

Yes, because Bay Area's unaffordium has absolutely zero impact on health, education, equality of opportunity, QoL.

Interesting take you got there.

LA has the worst Cost/Income ratio in the country.
Pretty sure SD is also worse than the Bay Area

Pretty much every argument you can trot out against the Bay Area, it’s worse in LA.

[Joakim3]

Originally Posted by btownboss4

LA has the worst Cost/Income ratio in the country.
Pretty sure SD is also worse than the Bay Area

Pretty much every argument you can trot out against the Bay Area, it’s worse in LA.

Comparing the cost/income ratio of LA vs. SF is grasping at straws. They are the worst cities in the country only rivaled by San Jose. To LA's credit it at least builds housing to somewhat control prices, where as SF is Boston level NIMBY dialed up to 12.

SD is closer to Miami and NYC than it is to LA and SF regarding cost/income ratio.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by Joakim3

Definitely going to take the word of the person living on the Oakland side of the MSA.

Good, you might actually learn something.

For example.

This is a look at basic human development statistics: Life Expectancy, Educational Attainment, Health Care, Income, etc. Of every cluster of neighborhoods and towns in the entire state.

The most elite areas of CA are in "The Oakland side of the MSA"

2021 One Percent California: Human Development Score, 9.00 or Higher
Population: 906,214
Rank/Neighborhood Cluster(County)
1 San Ramon, Danville & Alamo(Contra Costa)-OAKLAND SIDE OF THE MSA
2 Mountain View, Palo Alto & Los Altos(Santa Clara)
3 West Walnut Creek, Lafayette, Orinda & Moraga(Contra Costa)-OAKLAND SIDE OF THE MSA
4 Cupertino, Saratoga & Los Gatos(Santa Clara)
5 Pacific Palisades(Los Angeles)
6 Piedmont & Oakland Hills(Alameda)-OAKLAND SIDE OF THE MSA

2021 Elite Enclave California, Human Development Score, 7.14-8.94
Population: 8,083,082
7 Rancho Santa Margarita & Ladera Ranch(Orange)
8 Del Mar Mesa(San Diego)
9 Newport Beach, Aliso Viejo & Laguna Hills(Orange)
10 Redondo Beach, Manhattan Beach & Hermosa Beach(Los Angeles)
11 Encinitas & San Dieguito(San Diego)
12 North San Mateo, Burlingame & Millbrae(San Mateo)
13 South San Mateo & Half Moon Bay(San Mateo)
14 Livermore, Pleasanton & Dublin(Alameda)
15 Central Irvine(Orange)
16 Redwood City, San Carlos & Belmont(San Mateo)
17 Fremont(Alameda)
18 Sunnyvale & North San Jose(Santa Clara)
19 Northwest San Jose & Santa Clara(Santa Clara)
20 Richmond District(San Francisco)
21 Southwest San Jose: Almaden Valley(Santa Clara)
22 Culver City & City of Los Angeles: Marina del Rey & Westchester(Los Angeles)
23 West Central San Jose & Campbell(Santa Clara)
24 Palos Verdes Peninsula(Los Angeles)
25 Santa Monica(Los Angeles)
26 North Beach & Chinatown(San Francisco)
27 Milpitas & Northeast San Jose(Santa Clara)
28 Calabasas, Agoura Hills & Westlake Village(Los Angeles)
29 San Gabriel Valley Region(Los Angeles)
30 Inner Mission & Castro(San Francisco)
31 South San Rafale, Mill Valley & Sausalito(Marin)
32 North Sunset District(San Francisco)
33 Menlo Park, East Palo Alto & Atherton(San Mateo)
34 Union City, Newark & West Fremont
35 West Hollywood & Beverly Hills(Los Angeles)
36 Poway and San Diego: Rancho Bernardo(San Diego)
37 Cambrian Park & South Central San Jose: Branham(Santa Clara)
38 Berkeley & Albany(Alameda)
39 South of Market & Portrero(San Francisco)
40 Novato & North San Rafael(Marin)
41 South Concord, East Walnut Creek & Clayton(Contra Costa)
42 Westwood & West Los Angeles(Los Angeles)
42 Thousand Oaks(Ventura)
44 Lake Forest, North Irvine & Silverado(Orange)
45 South Sunset District(San Francisco)
46 Torrance(Los Angeles)
47 San Diego: Centra Coastal(San Diego)
48 Mission Viejo & West Rancho Santa Margarita(Orange)
49 Chula Vista East(San Diego)
50 Carlsbad(San Diego)
51 Southeast San Jose: Evergreen(Santa Clara)
52 Folsom, Orangevale & East Fair Oaks(Sacramento)
53 Arcadia, San Gabriel & Temple City(Los Angeles)
54 Pasadena(Los Angeles)
55 East Long Beach(Los Angeles)
56 San Clemente, Laguna Niguel & San Juan Capistrano(Orange)
57 Hancock Park & Mid-Wilshire(Los Angeles)
58 North Richmond, Hercules & El Cerrito(Contra Costa)
59 Northwest San Jose(Santa Clara)
60 Rocklin, Lincoln & Loomis
61 Diamond Bar, La Habra Heights & Rowland Heighs(Los Angeles)
62 San Leandro, Alameda & Southwest Oakland(Alameda)

2021 Main Street California: Human Development Score 5.03-6.97
Population: 18,319,773

2021 Struggling California: Human Development Score Under 5.00
Population: 12,203,154

On the flip side, East Oakland is 219th but its the only Bay Area cluster in the lowest tier.

Here are the bottom 65 Clusters:
200 Sanger Reedley & Parlier(Fresno)
201 Lodi, Ripon & Escalon(San Joaquin)
202 Citrus Heights(Sacramento)
203 East Santa Ana(Orange)
204 Inglewood(Los Angeles)
205 San Fernando, Arleta & Pacoima(Los Angeles)
206 Southern Monterey County & San Benito County
207 Encanto & Skyline(San Diego)
208 Perris, Temescal Valley & Mead(Riverside)
209 Oceanside & Camp Pendleton(San Diego)
210 Mission HIlls & Panorama City(Los Angeles)
211 Ceres, Patterson & Newman(Stanislaus)
212 Southwest Long Beach(Los Angeles)
213 Imperial County
214 Indio, Coachella, Blythe & East La Quinta(Riverside)
215 Rialto(San Bernardino)
216 Antelope, Rio Linda & North Sacramento(Sacramento)
217 North Long Beach(Los Angeles)
218 Hemet & East Hemet(Riverside)
219 South Central Oakland(Alameda)
220 Shasta County
222 Fruitridge, Avondale & Depot Park(Sacramento)
223 Colusa, Glenn, Tehama & Trinity Counties
224 Lake & Mendocino Counties
225 El Monte & South El Monte(Los Angeles)
226 Visalia(Tulare)
227 Chula Vista West & National City(San Diego)
228 Merced & Atwater(Merced)
229 West Riverside(Riverside)
230 Salinas(Monterey)
231 Kings County
232 Sutter & Yuba Counties
233 Oroville & Paradise(Butte)
234 East Fontana(San Bernardino)
235 Moreno Valley(Riverside)
236 North Highlands, Foothill Farms & McClellan Park(Sacramento)
237 South Gate & Lynwood(Los Angeles)
238 Santa Maria & Orcutt(Santa Barbara)
239 West Modesto(Stanislaus)
240 Los Banos & Livingston(Merced)
241 Selma, Kerman & Coalinga(Fresno)
242 Madera County
243 Delano, Wasco & Shafter(Kern)
244 Tulare & Porterville(Tulare)
245 USC & Exposition Park(Los Angeles)
246 Bell Gardens, Bell, Maywood, Cudahy & Commerce(Los Angeles)
247 Ridgecrest, Arvin, Tehachapi & California City(Kern)
248 Outside Visalia, Tulare & Porterville(Tulare)
249 Southeast Fresno(Fresno)
250 Hesperia & Apple Valley(San Bernardino)
251 South Central & Westmont(Los Angeles)
252 Huntington Park, Florence-Graham & Walnut Park(Los Angeles)
253 East Los Angeles(Los Angeles)
254 Compton & West Rancho Dominguez(Los Angeles)
255 East Central Fresno(Fresno)
256 Victorville & Adelanto(San Bernardino)
257 South Stockton(San Joaquin)
258 Twentynine Palms & Barstow(San Bernardino)
259 East San Bernardino(San Bernardino)
260 West San Bernardino(San Bernardino)
261 Southwest Fresno(Fresno)
262 Northeast Bakersfield(Kern)
263 Southeast Bakersfield(Kern)
264 South Central & Watts(Los Angeles)
265 East Vernon(Los Angeles)

Direct Link to pdf: https://ssrc-static.s3.amazonaws.com...a2021-2022.pdf

If that doesn't work, try signing up for the full report here:
https://measureofamerica.org/california2021-22/

"The Oakland side of the MSA" lmao

[Joakim3]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

Good, you might actually learn something.

For example.

This is a look at basic human development statistics: Life Expectancy, Educational Attainment, Health Care, Income, etc. Of every cluster of neighborhoods and towns in the entire state.

The most elite areas of CA are in "The Oakland side of the MSA"

2021 One Percent California: Human Development Score, 9.00 or Higher
Population: 906,214
Rank/Neighborhood Cluster(County)
1 San Ramon, Danville & Alamo(Contra Costa)-OAKLAND SIDE OF THE MSA
2 Mountain View, Palo Alto & Los Altos(Santa Clara)
3 West Walnut Creek, Lafayette, Orinda & Moraga(Contra Costa)-OAKLAND SIDE OF THE MSA
4 Cupertino, Saratoga & Los Gatos(Santa Clara)
5 Pacific Palisades(Los Angeles)
6 Piedmont & Oakland Hills(Alameda)-OAKLAND SIDE OF THE MSA

2021 Elite Enclave California, Human Development Score, 7.14-8.94
Population: 8,083,082
7 Rancho Santa Margarita & Ladera Ranch(Orange)
8 Del Mar Mesa(San Diego)
9 Newport Beach, Aliso Viejo & Laguna Hills(Orange)
10 Redondo Beach, Manhattan Beach & Hermosa Beach(Los Angeles)
11 Encinitas & San Dieguito(San Diego)
12 North San Mateo, Burlingame & Millbrae(San Mateo)
13 South San Mateo & Half Moon Bay(San Mateo)
14 Livermore, Pleasanton & Dublin(Alameda)
15 Central Irvine(Orange)
16 Redwood City, San Carlos & Belmont(San Mateo)
17 Fremont(Alameda)
18 Sunnyvale & North San Jose(Santa Clara)
19 Northwest San Jose & Santa Clara(Santa Clara)
20 Richmond District(San Francisco)
21 Southwest San Jose: Almaden Valley(Santa Clara)
22 Culver City & City of Los Angeles: Marina del Rey & Westchester(Los Angeles)
23 West Central San Jose & Campbell(Santa Clara)
24 Palos Verdes Peninsula(Los Angeles)
25 Santa Monica(Los Angeles)
26 North Beach & Chinatown(San Francisco)
27 Milpitas & Northeast San Jose(Santa Clara)
28 Calabasas, Agoura Hills & Westlake Village(Los Angeles)
29 San Gabriel Valley Region(Los Angeles)
30 Inner Mission & Castro(San Francisco)
31 South San Rafale, Mill Valley & Sausalito(Marin)
32 North Sunset District(San Francisco)
33 Menlo Park, East Palo Alto & Atherton(San Mateo)
34 Union City, Newark & West Fremont
35 West Hollywood & Beverly Hills(Los Angeles)
36 Poway and San Diego: Rancho Bernardo(San Diego)
37 Cambrian Park & South Central San Jose: Branham(Santa Clara)
38 Berkeley & Albany(Alameda)
39 South of Market & Portrero(San Francisco)
40 Novato & North San Rafael(Marin)
41 South Concord, East Walnut Creek & Clayton(Contra Costa)
42 Westwood & West Los Angeles(Los Angeles)
42 Thousand Oaks(Ventura)
44 Lake Forest, North Irvine & Silverado(Orange)
45 South Sunset District(San Francisco)
46 Torrance(Los Angeles)
47 San Diego: Centra Coastal(San Diego)
48 Mission Viejo & West Rancho Santa Margarita(Orange)
49 Chula Vista East(San Diego)
50 Carlsbad(San Diego)
51 Southeast San Jose: Evergreen(Santa Clara)
52 Folsom, Orangevale & East Fair Oaks(Sacramento)
53 Arcadia, San Gabriel & Temple City(Los Angeles)
54 Pasadena(Los Angeles)
55 East Long Beach(Los Angeles)
56 San Clemente, Laguna Niguel & San Juan Capistrano(Orange)
57 Hancock Park & Mid-Wilshire(Los Angeles)
58 North Richmond, Hercules & El Cerrito(Contra Costa)
59 Northwest San Jose(Santa Clara)
60 Rocklin, Lincoln & Loomis
61 Diamond Bar, La Habra Heights & Rowland Heighs(Los Angeles)
62 San Leandro, Alameda & Southwest Oakland(Alameda)

2021 Main Street California: Human Development Score 5.03-6.97
Population: 18,319,773

2021 Struggling California: Human Development Score Under 5.00
Population: 12,203,154

On the flip side, East Oakland is 219th but its the only Bay Area cluster in the lowest tier.

Here are the bottom 65 Clusters:
200 Sanger Reedley & Parlier(Fresno)
201 Lodi, Ripon & Escalon(San Joaquin)
202 Citrus Heights(Sacramento)
203 East Santa Ana(Orange)
204 Inglewood(Los Angeles)
205 San Fernando, Arleta & Pacoima(Los Angeles)
206 Southern Monterey County & San Benito County
207 Encanto & Skyline(San Diego)
208 Perris, Temescal Valley & Mead(Riverside)
209 Oceanside & Camp Pendleton(San Diego)
210 Mission HIlls & Panorama City(Los Angeles)
211 Ceres, Patterson & Newman(Stanislaus)
212 Southwest Long Beach(Los Angeles)
213 Imperial County
214 Indio, Coachella, Blythe & East La Quinta(Riverside)
215 Rialto(San Bernardino)
216 Antelope, Rio Linda & North Sacramento(Sacramento)
217 North Long Beach(Los Angeles)
218 Hemet & East Hemet(Riverside)
219 South Central Oakland(Alameda)
220 Shasta County
222 Fruitridge, Avondale & Depot Park(Sacramento)
223 Colusa, Glenn, Tehama & Trinity Counties
224 Lake & Mendocino Counties
225 El Monte & South El Monte(Los Angeles)
226 Visalia(Tulare)
227 Chula Vista West & National City(San Diego)
228 Merced & Atwater(Merced)
229 West Riverside(Riverside)
230 Salinas(Monterey)
231 Kings County
232 Sutter & Yuba Counties
233 Oroville & Paradise(Butte)
234 East Fontana(San Bernardino)
235 Moreno Valley(Riverside)
236 North Highlands, Foothill Farms & McClellan Park(Sacramento)
237 South Gate & Lynwood(Los Angeles)
238 Santa Maria & Orcutt(Santa Barbara)
239 West Modesto(Stanislaus)
240 Los Banos & Livingston(Merced)
241 Selma, Kerman & Coalinga(Fresno)
242 Madera County
243 Delano, Wasco & Shafter(Kern)
244 Tulare & Porterville(Tulare)
245 USC & Exposition Park(Los Angeles)
246 Bell Gardens, Bell, Maywood, Cudahy & Commerce(Los Angeles)
247 Ridgecrest, Arvin, Tehachapi & California City(Kern)
248 Outside Visalia, Tulare & Porterville(Tulare)
249 Southeast Fresno(Fresno)
250 Hesperia & Apple Valley(San Bernardino)
251 South Central & Westmont(Los Angeles)
252 Huntington Park, Florence-Graham & Walnut Park(Los Angeles)
253 East Los Angeles(Los Angeles)
254 Compton & West Rancho Dominguez(Los Angeles)
255 East Central Fresno(Fresno)
256 Victorville & Adelanto(San Bernardino)
257 South Stockton(San Joaquin)
258 Twentynine Palms & Barstow(San Bernardino)
259 East San Bernardino(San Bernardino)
260 West San Bernardino(San Bernardino)
261 Southwest Fresno(Fresno)
262 Northeast Bakersfield(Kern)
263 Southeast Bakersfield(Kern)
264 South Central & Watts(Los Angeles)
265 East Vernon(Los Angeles)

Direct Link to pdf: https://ssrc-static.s3.amazonaws.com...a2021-2022.pdf

If that doesn't work, try signing up for the full report here:
https://measureofamerica.org/california2021-22/

"The Oakland side of the MSA" lmao

There is nothing elite about having to pay $850k for a ~1000 sq/mi home in Contra Costa.

[indiglo_2000]

Originally Posted by btownboss4

LA really canabalizes it’s outer MSA GDPs. Like Riverside has a GDP of 45,000. The others are quite low too like St Luis Obispo. (Which is quite wealthy) because all the rich people work in the LA Area. While this is true for other metros (like DC and Boston) where large surrounding metros have a net drain to the central metros, it’s not as bad. Providence (which locally, just isn’t that wealthy) has a higher GDP per capita than any of the LA secondary MSA’s. Same with Baltimore.

Even Akron OH is wealthier than Bakersfield.

San Luis Obispo? Bakersfield?! Is all of California the LA area now?

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by Joakim3

There is nothing elite about having to pay $850k for a ~1000 sq/mi home in Contra Costa.

oh but plenty of highly educated, high income families certainly do pay that and far more, with pleasure, because the area has very posh towns with exceptional schools, low crime, warmer summers, lots of trees, proximity to the tech and finance jobs the Bay Area is known for, and the data confirms that the socio-economic nature of the Bay Area is very different from SoCal, which is why it's important for each of us to stay in our lane when make comments about issues such as livability and quality of life.