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[b]I read exactly what you wrote. And I still disagree with it.
If you read it exactly how I wrote it, how exactly did you miss the "whole" part. It is there for a reason. Meaning, by percentage, more of VA is Southern compared to Texas. Just about everything south of Corpus if not Victoria in South Texas and Far West Texas is not Southern and there are other parts where the Southern culture has been heavily diluted to the point of it not existing anymore.
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I didn't throw out "stereotypes." That Texas lynched more African Americans than the Carolinas and Virginia combined is not a "stereotype." That's a fact. That Texas is staunchly Republican is not a "stereotype." It's a fact. That Texas' non-Hispanic White population is as Evangelical as South Carolina and Georgia's is not a "stereotype." It's a fact. Those are the things most people think of when they think the "Deep South," not just the South. Since Virginia is in no way part of the Deep South, and Texas is indeed part of the Deep South, how could one possibly conclude that Texas is less southern than Virginia? That's just bananas.
First off Texas is not part of the Deep South. Only Deep East Texas can pass off as the Deep South. Second, yes, you do speak on stereotypes or maybe generalizations is another word. Does all this exist in Texas? Yes. Does it exist in Florida as well as every other Southern state including Virginia, yes. Does Texas have a history concerning the amount of lynchings, yes. I didn't deny this in the first place. Historically, Virginia has been a Southern state longer than Texas and it is still Southern to it's core. Just because a bunch of people from the Northeast moved to NOVA does not change the history of the place state as a whole.
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Okay. Not only does Texas not vote for Democrats in Presidential contests, but it usually hands them massive, crushing defeats. Obama lost Texas in 2012 by 16 points. He lost to McCain by 12 points. Kerry lost by 23 points. Gore lost by 22 points. Clinton lost by 15 points in 1996. Those are much worse losses than Democrats suffered in Georgia and North Carolina during the same period. Democrats don't even bother competing in Texas in general elections. Why waste valuable advertising dollars on a state that's going to hand you a double-digit loss? That money could be better spent in North Carolina or Florida.
2000 and 2004 withstanding as it was elections where a "Texan" was going into office that's why the numbers are a bit inflated, I don't disagree with you here. The Obama elections were the norm. However, in 1992, Bush did only win by 3% over Clinton.
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And you can't even harp on the transplants because Texas' non-Hispanic White and Black populations have grown at a higher rate than Virginia's. You're acting as if people haven't moved to Texas to take advantage of a lower COL and a robust job market. Tons of people have; it's just not enough to offset the heavy Republican vote.
I can indeed harp on transplants because VA and FL have received different type of transplants than Texas. Also people simply people just don't vote. Such as down in the valley or in the major cities where they have low turnout votes from minorities.
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The difference between me and you is that I like data. I mean, anyone can just say stuff. But I actually offered a linguistics study conducted by the University of Pennsylvania, which is the best in the field. How biased can that be? They put nearly the whole state of Texas in the southern dialect zone. Only Jacksonville and the Panhandle fell in that zone. Hey, but if you trust your gut over tens of thousands of speech samples collected by the University of Pennsylvania, then so be it. It's pretty clear you won't accept any data so I'm not sure any further research will be fruitful.
Because I don't care for that data when I lived and experienced BOTH places. Have you? Will you hear Southern speech from Native Floridians in South Florida? Hell yeah. I can take you to Davie, Cooper City, Pembroke Pines in Broward. I can take you to Clewiston, Okechobee, etc. and you will hear it. That map means nothing to people who actually experience. So you're not getting any links of linguistic from me.
What does that even mean?[/quote]
Simply that Florida voters are not much different the rest of the South outside of Presidential elections. Unlike Virginia, Florida isn't exactly voting for democrats in higher state offices. Florida's voting is in line with the rest of the South.
Florida is as pro-gun as it gets. And the one thing about Texas, is that there really are huge swaths of the state that have no linguistic, cultural, racial, religious, or economic ties to anywhere in the South. Far South Texas, and Far West Texas being 2 regions. Texas is too geographically large of a state, to be limited to one region of the US.
Bajan, my friend. Trust me, it's a mix of old-school, older, Caribbean Blacks, who've never forgotten how it as back-home. And the 1st generation Caribbean Blacks, who've not necessarily completely forgot how it was back home, but who've FULLY embraced the Southern-Black culture that comes with assimilation, once they've joined the Black-American community of South Florida. In many ways, Blacks in Miami ARE like Blacks in Houston, Atlanta, DC, etc.
Well, I suppose our own experiences are completely different. I don't feel like there's much of anything "Black American" about Miami compared to Atlanta or DC. I can't really rebut someone's anecdotal evidence. But if you have something in the way of factsto offer, please share.
Again, absolutely no data offered in any of these posts. So basically what it comes down to is that Florida is more southern than Texas because you guys say it is...
More Texans self-identify as southerners. Check.
Linguistics maps place nearly all of Texas within the southern dialect zone. Check.
Texas has a higher percentage of Evangelical Christians. Check.
Texas votes for Republicans by large double-digit margins in presidential elections. Check.
Texas voters were determined to be as conservative as South Carolina voters in political opinion polling. Check.
Texas grows more cotton than Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida and Alabama combined. Check.
Texas was determined to be more religious than Florida in a Pew religious opinion poll. Check.
Texas was third in total number of lynchings behind Mississippi and Georgia. Check.
I mean, what is your response to the aforementioned? It's a whole bunch of stupid polling and you'd rather judge on the number of people you know that eat gator?
1. Copy and paste when I said Florida is more Southern than Texas. I go by experience. You go by idiotic data that doesn't trump the people that actually experience and live it. That data tells me that there is no Southern type of accent in Orlando and Tampa? That data tells me that you won't find Southern accents in Ocala and Gainesville? That data tells me that this man here:
isn't Southern? FTDS.This dude sound like he could be from Georgia. My family and friends born and raised in South and Central Florida calls themselves Southerners, identify with themselves as Southerners, never knew they weren't Southerners, reps the South hard like anyone.
Florida is as pro-gun as it gets. And the one thing about Texas, is that there really are huge swaths of the state that have no linguistic, cultural, racial, religious, or economic ties to anywhere in the South. Far South Texas, and Far West Texas being 2 regions. Texas is too geographically large of a state, to be limited to one region of the US.
That is all I am saying. You have more parts of Texas that fits this by experience, not by some crab data, than Florida does. And after all that, I still said Texas is little bit more Southern than Florida.
Maybe you misunderstood my post regarding Miami. It was founded as a resort city by Henry Flagler (Google away) that catered to wealthy people in northern states and were basically Yankees. Most of the people who worked on Flagler's railroad were Bahamians hence we have a neighborhood called Coconut Grove where they lived and why Miami still has a "Goombay" festival celebrating Bahamian culture every year.
Jews started making their presence known in the area in the 1920s and settling in Miami Beach. Southerners came afterwards especially after WW 2 when many of them were in the Military and sent to Miami & Miami Beach to train and fell in love with the place and moved after the War.
Southerners didn't really shape Miami in any capacity, they just moved here and if any group has shaped Miami it would be the Cubans and the Caribbean immigrants.
The New York Times had a article in the 1920's calling Miami the "Sixth borough". Unless you want to include black culture as being Southern then yes Miami does have Southern characteristics in that sense.
By the way I wasn't being "disingenuous". I just happen to know my city's history very well.
I feel like those linguistic studies, were heavily skewed by the predominantly White(Mostly descendants of Northerners) population of South Florida. I'd like for them to conduct a study, on speech patterns by race, in Florida. I feel that'll bring a different result.
It's definitely skewed that way but I didn't want to say it like that. Especially in that first map. That's why I take it with a grain of salt. Considering that they don't even have freaking Tallahassee inside the Southern circle.
Well, I suppose our own experiences are completely different. I don't feel like there's much of anything "Black American" about Miami compared to Atlanta or DC. I can't really rebut someone's anecdotal evidence. But if you have something in the way of factsto offer, please share.
Jim Crow used to be HEAVY in Miami. The history of Jim Crow, and the racial tensions it brought fourth, is a common unification of what is considered "historically Southern":
1. Copy and paste when I said Florida is more Southern than Texas. I go by experience. You go by idiotic data that doesn't trump the people that actually experience and live it. That data tells me that there is no Southern type of accent in Orlando and Tampa? That data tells me that you won't find Southern accents in Ocala and Gainesville? That data tells me that this man here:
isn't Southern? FTDS.This dude sound like he could be from Georgia. My family and friends born and raised in South and Central Florida calls themselves Southerners, identify with themselves as Southerners, never knew they weren't Southerners, reps the South hard like anyone.
I really don't understand how Santana Moss = a Southern accent? It just sounds like a hood accent and he certainly doesn't sound like Paula Deen.
You could hear this accent from blacks anywhere in the US.
I really don't understand how Santana Moss = a Southern accent? It just sounds like a hood accent and he certainly doesn't sound like Paula Deen.
You could hear this accent from blacks anywhere in the US.
You won't hear his accent in DC, much less Chicago, much less the West Coast. It's not a hood accent. It's the way he is saying his words. He cuts his words out short like other Black Southerners (lazy with his tongue). "I'm jus chillin' riht nah." I've meant plenty of born and raised folks in Georgia that sound just like him. Keep in mind, there is no such thing as one Southern accent. Memphis Blacks do not sound like Houston blacks and Dallas blacks do not sound like New Orleans Blacks. But it's still a variation of the South. Miami isn't any different. And what Black person sounds like Paula Deen?
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