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I wish I could say the same for AS, but I have to be honest. Atlanta needs to do better. I'm tired of Atlanta being subpar. We need to do a hell of a lot better.
I've not been to NH so I refrained from voting, but since state101 shed some light on the function of NH as compared to AS, I have to say that this statement of yours is extremely misguided and completely lacks context. NH is in Prince George's County, which I already know is quite underserved in terms of retail and amenities, so it appears that NH, in some ways, is trying to be the premier "downtown" of the county which is why it has a conference center and children's museum. AS doesn't need those things, since it is part of an already-thriving Midtown and we already have a children's museum and one of the country's largest convention centers a very short distance away in downtown. AS fits quite nicely into the Midtown scene and doesn't need to poach on the rest of Midtown and downtown by duplicating what they already have. An insular development that's designed to be a destination in and of itself will function very, very different than one that's part of the existing urban fabric within close proximity to an already developed business district.
you have no idea what you're talking about at all...
If you get off the Metro at Braddock Place in Alexandria, you can ride your bike from there, through Old Town Alexandria, up to the Woodrow Wilson bridge and right across to the Harbor. I've done it.
I'm starting to think YOU have never been there. And if you have, it was probably once in your car
Apparently you're unaware that the Braddock Place metro station isn't in National Harbor, isn't in Prince George's County, and isn't even in MARYLAND. You're talking about a completely different state! You have to cross a gigantic freeway bridge, among other things.
Yes, obviously one can hypothetically bike to National Harbor from any transit station in the Northeastern U.S. You could bike there from Brooklyn, technically.
But your explanation that "National Harbor is transit friendly if you bike down the freeway from another state" is definitely one of the sillier things I've heard on C-D.
Apparently you're unaware that the Braddock Place metro station isn't in National Harbor, isn't in Prince George's County, and isn't even in MARYLAND. You're talking about a completely different state! You have to cross a gigantic freeway bridge, among other things.
Yes, obviously one can hypothetically bike to National Harbor from any transit station in the Northeastern U.S. You could bike there from Brooklyn, technically.
But your explanation that "National Harbor is transit friendly if you bike down the freeway from another state" is definitely one of the sillier things I've heard on C-D.
The Wilson Bridge (the beltway bridge over the Potomac) has a bike and pedestrian path along its' north side. Very easy and safe to walk from Old Town Alexandria to the National Hatrbor. From the entrance to the path on S. Washington St. it's about a 5-10 minute bike ride, maybe a 20-30 minute walk. No Sweat.
The Wilson Bridge has a bike and pedestrian path along its' north side. Very easy and safe to walk from Old Town Alwexandria to the National Hatrbor. From the entrance to the path on S. Washington St. it's about a 5-10 minute bike ride, maybe a 20-30 minute walk. No Sweat.
This is nonsense. The Wilson Bridge is a gigantic freeway bridge, and no one is crossing the bridge in 20 minutes walking. It would be a very unpleasant and long walk next to 12 roaring lanes of freeway traffic from the busiest interstate in the Eastern U.S.
And your criteria means that 100% of the U.S. is non-automobile friendly, because there is no place in the U.S. where one couldn't hypothetically bike from somewhere else.
Transit and bike and pedestrian-FRIENDLY, not hypothetically possible. That's what we're talking about. Yes, you can get to National Harbor by foot or bike without being killed. That has nothing to do with whether it is oriented in such a manner.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
8,129 posts, read 7,568,606 times
Reputation: 5786
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiVegas
Um, I don't think you've been to National Harbor.
There is no rail whatsoever to National Harbor (or even anywhere in proximity), no frequent bus service (or even in proximity), most of the surrounding streets don't even have sidewalks (basically 1970's-era ranch house sprawl), and it's in the least desirable and least developed county in the entire Washington metro area.
The whole reason National Harbor was even allowed to be developed is because PG County is desperate for development, so they agreed to whatever was proposed. They could have proposed a megacity of towers there (in fact they originally did), and ask the public to subsidize it, and even that was approved with no controversy.
What the heck are you talking about? Please spit facts before you come on a message board spewing hate...What is your gripe with the DC area? Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean you can just make up what you think are facts. The NH1 bus has two stops in National Harbor
This is nonsense. The Wilson Bridge is a gigantic freeway bridge, and no one is crossing the bridge in 20 minutes walking. It would be a very unpleasant and long walk next to 12 roaring lanes of freeway traffic from the busiest interstate in the Eastern U.S.
And your criteria means that 100% of the U.S. is non-automobile friendly, because there is no place in the U.S. where one couldn't hypothetically bike from somewhere else.
Transit and bike and pedestrian-FRIENDLY, not hypothetically possible. That's what we're talking about. Yes, you can get to National Harbor by foot or bike without being killed. That has nothing to do with whether it is oriented in such a manner.
You obviously have never been on the Wilson Bridge bike/pedestrian path. It's very safe and user friendly though it is a little noisy in the section without the sound barriers. But not a bad bike or hike. You should reserve your comments for when you actually know what you're talking about.
Apparently you're unaware that the Braddock Place metro station isn't in National Harbor, isn't in Prince George's County, and isn't even in MARYLAND. You're talking about a completely different state! You have to cross a gigantic freeway bridge, among other things.
Yes, obviously one can hypothetically bike to National Harbor from any transit station in the Northeastern U.S. You could bike there from Brooklyn, technically.
But your explanation that "National Harbor is transit friendly if you bike down the freeway from another state" is definitely one of the sillier things I've heard on C-D.
Okay... Fine. I must be mistaken. Guess I must've imagined safely crossing the Woodrow Wilson as a pedestrian all those years. Or better yet, I must be lying. Huh? Because I don't know that Braddock Place (where I once worked) is in VA, not MD... OH NO! Michi is exposing me!!! Help! He's killing my credibility!!! Somebody help!!!
Because apparently you know better....
But just for giggles, let's see what we can find about it...
AS doesnt have to have all the restaurants etc because down the street in Midtown, West Midtown and Downtown has plenty of restaurants and attractions. NH has to have everything because the area around it doesn't anything unless they drive into DC or ride on the ferry to Old Towne
Quote:
Originally Posted by state101
NH goal is to keep people entertained enough so that do not have to go to DC. AS goal is to give people in town an additional destination
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77
AS doesn't need those things, since it is part of an already-thriving Midtown and we already have a children's museum and one of the country's largest convention centers a very short distance away in downtown. AS fits quite nicely into the Midtown scene and doesn't need to poach on the rest of Midtown and downtown by duplicating what they already have. An insular development that's designed to be a destination in and of itself will function very, very different than one that's part of the existing urban fabric within close proximity to an already developed business district.
So, I keep seeing people point at the fact that AS is closer in-town and more integrated with the city-scape as a reason why it "doesn't need" the other ammenities that can be found at NH, or other places in Atlanta... But, so what? What does that have to do with the question at hand???
The question is which development is better at serving the following:
-Urban Design
-Entertainment
-Housing Stock and Variety
-Mixed Use
-Shopping
-Restaurants
-Vibrancy
-Nightlife
Not, which development is closer to other developments that serve the following...
Not, Midtown+AS vs NH...
AS ONLY vs NH
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77
I've not been to NH so I refrained from voting, but since state101 shed some light on the function of NH as compared to AS, I have to say that this statement of yours is extremely misguided and completely lacks context.
Yeah, the statement I made is not a "fact." It's an opinion. In my opinion, we need to do better with our signature developments in Atlanta. Because it's been my opinion that Atlanta has for a LONG time lacked leardership by people with "vision." But it's my OPINION... Not a "Fact"
Also, stating NH has a Children Museum isn't to say AS "should" have one or "needs" one. Of course not. That's just dumb when there's a Children's Museum near Pemberton Place. Saying NH is getting a ferris wheel doesn't mean I think AS needs to also have one.
But it does give credit to the things that NH does have as an individual development
So, I keep seeing people point at the fact that AS is closer in-town and more integrated with the city-scape as a reason why it "doesn't need" the other ammenities that can be found at NH, or other places in Atlanta... But, so what? What does that have to do with the question at hand???
The question is which development is better at serving the following:
-Urban Design
-Entertainment
-Housing Stock and Variety
-Mixed Use
-Shopping
-Restaurants
-Vibrancy
-Nightlife
Not, which development is closer to other developments that serve the following...
Not, Midtown+AS vs NH...
AS ONLY vs NH
But context is needed because both developments, while being of the same type (New Urbanist), are located in completely different areas and have completely different functions. That has to be taken into account, so in this respect, it's not exactly an apples-to-apples comparison.
NH is a greenfield development, while AS is a brownfield development. This is the major difference between the two. When one understands that, they won't make such an uninformed statement such as
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psykomonkee
National Harbor makes Atlantic Station look like a terrible disappointment
Quote:
Yeah, the statement I made is not a "fact." It's an opinion. In my opinion, we need to do better with our signature developments in Atlanta. Because it's been my opinion that Atlanta has for a LONG time lacked leardership by people with "vision." But it's my OPINION... Not a "Fact"
This may be your opinion (which you're entitled to), but I don't think this is applicable to AS relative to a greenfield New Urbanist project like NH. That's my point here.
Quote:
Also, stating NH has a Children Museum isn't to say AS "should" have one or "needs" one. Of course not. That's just dumb when there's a Children's Museum near Pemberton Place. Saying NH is getting a ferris wheel doesn't mean I think AS needs to also have one.
But it does give credit to the things that NH does have as an individual development
But that's the point: AS is already part of a thriving district, so it doesn't need a convention center or museum or a bunch of nightlife venues. It's part and parcel of Midtown so the goal is to have it add to the amenities already found within the district, not to become a destination district in and of itself.
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