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Compare Downtown Montreal to Center City Philadelphia on the following factors:
1) Pedestrian Friendliness
2) Lack of Dead Spaces
3) 24 hour amenities (aside from nightlife)
4) Transit
5) Employment
6) Residential Population and its Distribution
7) General Viability as a place to live/work/play
Please don't include weather as a criterion, as it's clear that Montreal is much colder in winter, and this would like result in less activity on the streets of Downtown Montreal during winter months.
Last edited by bballniket; 11-30-2013 at 10:25 PM..
Reason: needed to add something
I'll chime in and say that I think they're fairly comparable and both seem to have decent, but not overwhelming skylines, and very "human-scaled" neighborhoods; the Chinatowns seem comparable in size. Both have universities downtown and abutting downtown. I actually think they're even fairly comparable in the extent of mass transit downtown, as both have commuter rail systems not centered upon a single station with comparable ridership, though Montreal receives much more heavy rail ridership.
I think they're about even in terms of dead spaces, but center city Philly may have slightly more. I can't comment on residential population, or 24 hour amenities.
I'd imagine Philadelphia has more employment downtown since it's the center of a significantly larger metropolitan region.
Philly's downtown is more square shaped with uses more integrated equally. The residential streets downtown are more intimate and quaint. http://goo.gl/maps/qi9iY
Montreal's is more linear and irregular shaped, with separate uses more defined, the old city is separated more dramatically, and is a tourist trap. St.Catherine is a more impressive street than anything in Center City. Also, the way Montreal routinely closes St.Catherine for traffic, and throws festivals in front of the Place Des Arts is great civic engagement. http://goo.gl/maps/Qyljq If you're a fan of big American stores and super high end shopping, you may not like Montreal, but because it doesn't have this, it has probably the largest percentage of independent shops (for a downtown) in the US and Canada.
They both flow into their neighborhoods pretty well. And Montreal did as much to destroy its central city as urban renewal in the US, though I will say that there isn't as much of a barrier to adjacent neighborhoods in MTL as it is traveling North from Center City in Philly.
For nightlife, they both move to other areas near downtown, Philly moves East to Old City and South Street, while Montreal moves North to the Latin Quarter and The Plateau. There is more nightlife on St.Catherine though than any place within the immediate downtown area of Philly. That's because Montreal is one of the few cities that puts clubs, bars and even strip clubs next to high end retail, without being seedy as hell like the Tenderloin in SF. http://goo.gl/maps/iNURB They also have huge parks nearby, Fairmount Park and Mont-Royal. It is pretty nice how Mont-Royal lingers over the background of downtown too.
For transit, Montreal's subway is way more efficient and reliable than Septa and has four transfer points in the system so you don't even have to go downtown. Its ridership is the second largest in the US and Canada. Philly has way more lines overall though. This is when you realize that Montreal is only a metro of 4 Million or so, so it just doesn't have as many places to go. Another aspect nobody has mentioned yet is Montreal's underground tunnel system. In the cold weather, you don't even have to go outside.
I think for living, Philly takes it, though for hanging out Montreal takes this one. I think the fact that Montreal can hang with any downtown (sans NYC) and has only 4 million or so in its Metro is a testament to urbanity and it makes you sad to see how the US gave up on so many cities.
Philly's downtown is more square shaped with uses more integrated equally. The residential streets downtown are more intimate and quaint. http://goo.gl/maps/qi9iY
Montreal's is more linear and irregular shaped, with separate uses more defined, the old city is separated more dramatically, and is a tourist trap. St.Catherine is a more impressive street than anything in Center City. Also, the way Montreal routinely closes St.Catherine for traffic, and throws festivals in front of the Place Des Arts is great civic engagement. http://goo.gl/maps/Qyljq If you're a fan of big American stores and super high end shopping, you may not like Montreal, but because it doesn't have this, it has probably the largest percentage of independent shops (for a downtown) in the US and Canada.
They both flow into their neighborhoods pretty well. And Montreal did as much to destroy its central city as urban renewal in the US, though I will say that there isn't as much of a barrier to adjacent neighborhoods in MTL as it is traveling North from Center City in Philly.
For nightlife, they both move to other areas near downtown, Philly moves East to Old City and South Street, while Montreal moves North to the Latin Quarter and The Plateau. There is more nightlife on St.Catherine though than any place within the immediate downtown area of Philly. That's because Montreal is one of the few cities that puts clubs, bars and even strip clubs next to high end retail, without being seedy as hell like the Tenderloin in SF. http://goo.gl/maps/iNURB They also have huge parks nearby, Fairmount Park and Mont-Royal. It is pretty nice how Mont-Royal lingers over the background of downtown too.
For transit, Montreal's subway is way more efficient and reliable than Septa and has four transfer points in the system so you don't even have to go downtown. Its ridership is the second largest in the US and Canada. Philly has way more lines overall though. This is when you realize that Montreal is only a metro of 4 Million or so, so it just doesn't have as many places to go. Another aspect nobody has mentioned yet is Montreal's underground tunnel system. In the cold weather, you don't even have to go outside.
I think for living, Philly takes it, though for hanging out Montreal takes this one. I think the fact that Montreal can hang with any downtown (sans NYC) and has only 4 million or so in its Metro is a testament to urbanity and it makes you sad to see how the US gave up on so many cities.
This was an awesome comparison! Thanks so much! Do you consider Old City and South Street part of Center City Philadelphia, or no?
Philly's downtown is more square shaped with uses more integrated equally. The residential streets downtown are more intimate and quaint. http://goo.gl/maps/qi9iY
Montreal's is more linear and irregular shaped, with separate uses more defined, the old city is separated more dramatically, and is a tourist trap. St.Catherine is a more impressive street than anything in Center City. Also, the way Montreal routinely closes St.Catherine for traffic, and throws festivals in front of the Place Des Arts is great civic engagement. http://goo.gl/maps/Qyljq If you're a fan of big American stores and super high end shopping, you may not like Montreal, but because it doesn't have this, it has probably the largest percentage of independent shops (for a downtown) in the US and Canada.
They both flow into their neighborhoods pretty well. And Montreal did as much to destroy its central city as urban renewal in the US, though I will say that there isn't as much of a barrier to adjacent neighborhoods in MTL as it is traveling North from Center City in Philly.
For nightlife, they both move to other areas near downtown, Philly moves East to Old City and South Street, while Montreal moves North to the Latin Quarter and The Plateau. There is more nightlife on St.Catherine though than any place within the immediate downtown area of Philly. That's because Montreal is one of the few cities that puts clubs, bars and even strip clubs next to high end retail, without being seedy as hell like the Tenderloin in SF. http://goo.gl/maps/iNURB They also have huge parks nearby, Fairmount Park and Mont-Royal. It is pretty nice how Mont-Royal lingers over the background of downtown too.
For transit, Montreal's subway is way more efficient and reliable than Septa and has four transfer points in the system so you don't even have to go downtown. Its ridership is the second largest in the US and Canada. Philly has way more lines overall though. This is when you realize that Montreal is only a metro of 4 Million or so, so it just doesn't have as many places to go. Another aspect nobody has mentioned yet is Montreal's underground tunnel system. In the cold weather, you don't even have to go outside.
I think for living, Philly takes it, though for hanging out Montreal takes this one. I think the fact that Montreal can hang with any downtown (sans NYC) and has only 4 million or so in its Metro is a testament to urbanity and it makes you sad to see how the US gave up on so many cities.
Also, how do you think Walnut Street around Rittenhouse compares with Rue St. Catherine as far as retail offerings are concerned?
Also, how do you think Walnut Street around Rittenhouse compares with Rue St. Catherine as far as retail offerings are concerned?
St.Catherine seems to have a more interesting mix, and more overall due to its size. Its like a combination of Walnut Street and Market east of City Hall, with a little South Street thrown in. Walnut is a nice scaled street, but has the same chains you find anywhere in the US, and they all close at the same time, so its dies at night.
My two favorite cities in North America! I think that this is a pretty close call, but while they're both urban, they're both quite different. To me, Montreal is more "airy" than Philly, feeling a little less quaint and pedestrian friendly from an urban build perspective. However, Montreal does shut down Rue St. Catharine, and it does have a few pockets in the Latin Quarter and Chinatown that are pedestrian-only. Also, Montreal has Mont Royal, which is pretty much unmatched as an urban amenity (great views, amazing trails, etc.). These are also two superior food cities as well. I think Montreal handles the food range just a hair better, but I like Philly's European offerings better (except the bagels).
Based on your criteria, here's what I think:
1) Pedestrian Friendliness: Philly by a hair, due to the quaint streets and easy navigation.
2) Lack of Dead Spaces: I think this is pretty much a tie. There may be some dead spots in CC around 22nd/23rd or so, but I know they're filling in. In Montreal, there's some deadspace NW of Place Des Arts, where it transitions to the Latin Quarter. All in all, two very cohesive downtowns.
3) 24 hour amenities (aside from nightlife): Montreal: Both are good, but Montreal feels really alive really late at night across most of downtown, even as late as 2 or 3am. A few restaurants in Chinatown are 24 hours, and I've even had sushi at 4am before.
4) Transit: Montreal has a better subway, but it doesn't have rail service to the airport, and Philly has a much more extensive Commuter Rail network. Montreal has a better bicycle network, but Philly is making up progress FAST! Overall, I probably give Montreal the slight edge because of the Metro.
5) Employment: I can't speak to this one.
6) Residential Population and its Distribution: I think Philly is the clear winner here. Very few cities in NA can match the integration of residential and retail like Philly. Montreal has lots of residential mixed in, but it doesn't feel as evenly distributed as Philly, nor as cohesive.
7) General Viability as a place to live/work/play: I'm going with Philly here. I like to play more in Montreal, but working and living is more viable in Philly IMO. I think the housing stock in Philly is more friendly for those who want to buy, and the weather is certainly better as well.
Choosing between the two is difficult. I'd probably choose to live in Philly for several reasons, but Montreal's french culture, cosmopolitan feel and urban amenities make it a top place to visit.
Hmmm, I just checked out Rue St. Catherine on google street view between Atwater St. and Beaudry St. and that's 40 blocks of almost non-stop retail space (mixed in with some museums) *gasp*
That having been said, I think Philly's downtown probably covers more square blocks, given that it's fairly long north-south, while Montreal's seems more linear
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