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My two favorite cities in North America! I think that this is a pretty close call, but while they're both urban, they're both quite different. To me, Montreal is more "airy" than Philly, feeling a little less quaint and pedestrian friendly from an urban build perspective. However, Montreal does shut down Rue St. Catharine, and it does have a few pockets in the Latin Quarter and Chinatown that are pedestrian-only. Also, Montreal has Mont Royal, which is pretty much unmatched as an urban amenity (great views, amazing trails, etc.). These are also two superior food cities as well. I think Montreal handles the food range just a hair better, but I like Philly's European offerings better (except the bagels).
Based on your criteria, here's what I think:
1) Pedestrian Friendliness: Philly by a hair, due to the quaint streets and easy navigation.
2) Lack of Dead Spaces: I think this is pretty much a tie. There may be some dead spots in CC around 22nd/23rd or so, but I know they're filling in. In Montreal, there's some deadspace NW of Place Des Arts, where it transitions to the Latin Quarter. All in all, two very cohesive downtowns.
3) 24 hour amenities (aside from nightlife): Montreal: Both are good, but Montreal feels really alive really late at night across most of downtown, even as late as 2 or 3am. A few restaurants in Chinatown are 24 hours, and I've even had sushi at 4am before.
4) Transit: Montreal has a better subway, but it doesn't have rail service to the airport, and Philly has a much more extensive Commuter Rail network. Montreal has a better bicycle network, but Philly is making up progress FAST! Overall, I probably give Montreal the slight edge because of the Metro.
5) Employment: I can't speak to this one.
6) Residential Population and its Distribution: I think Philly is the clear winner here. Very few cities in NA can match the integration of residential and retail like Philly. Montreal has lots of residential mixed in, but it doesn't feel as evenly distributed as Philly, nor as cohesive.
7) General Viability as a place to live/work/play: I'm going with Philly here. I like to play more in Montreal, but working and living is more viable in Philly IMO. I think the housing stock in Philly is more friendly for those who want to buy, and the weather is certainly better as well.
Choosing between the two is difficult. I'd probably choose to live in Philly for several reasons, but Montreal's french culture, cosmopolitan feel and urban amenities make it a top place to visit.
Thanks so much for the really thorough reply! Do you think Old Montreal makes up for downtown's feeling a bit more airy and less pedestrian-friendly? Do you feel like Old Montreal is merely a tourist trap or could it be considered a "tight" downtown residential sub-neighborhood similar to Society Hill?
For nightlife, they both move to other areas near downtown, Philly moves East to Old City and South Street, while Montreal moves North to the Latin Quarter and The Plateau. There is more nightlife on St.Catherine though than any place within the immediate downtown area of Philly.
This continues to irk me. You clearly don't know Philly well. Anyone who says nightlife in South Street is better than Rittenhouse or 13th Street in Wash West doesn't know what they're talking about. Rittenhouse has plenty of clubs right next to high end shopping and it's not "seedy."
Even one who does not know Philly well can simple do a Google Search of bars in Philly. The highest concentration of bars/clubs/etc. is in Rittenhouse and Washington Square West neighborhoods right in the heart of Center City and plenty of bars right next to the high end shopping of Walnut Street. http://goo.gl/maps/aQ3PK
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Another aspect nobody has mentioned yet is Montreal's underground tunnel system. In the cold weather, you don't even have to go outside.
Again. Philly has underground tunnels as well that connect the transit lines. Suburban Station, The Market-Frankford Subway line, the PATCO Line, the Trolley Routes and the Broad Street line are all connected by an underground tunnel. Also, Market East Station is connected underground to the Market-Frankford Line and 30th Street Station is connected underground to the Market-Frankford Line.
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I think for living, Philly takes it, though for hanging out Montreal takes this one. I think the fact that Montreal can hang with any downtown (sans NYC) and has only 4 million or so in its Metro is a testament to urbanity and it makes you sad to see how the US gave up on so many cities.
Whatever this means... are you saying Montreal is more urban than Philly?
He's completely incorrect on nightlife however. The largest concentration of nightlife options are in Rittenhouse Square and Washington Square West in the heart of Center City Philadelphia. The next best nightlife options after that are Old City, then Northern Liberties/Fishtown/Waterfront, THEN South Street. http://goo.gl/maps/aQ3PK
Hmmm, I just checked out Rue St. Catherine on google street view between Atwater St. and Beaudry St. and that's 40 blocks of almost non-stop retail space (mixed in with some museums) *gasp*
That having been said, I think Philly's downtown probably covers more square blocks, given that it's fairly long north-south, while Montreal's seems more linear
The Downtown area of Philadelphia is only about 1.2 miles North to South. It is 4 miles in length from East to West.
Walnut in Center City has better shopping than Rue St. Catherine.
Walnut Street is more upscale than Rue St. Catherine. It's highly debatable whether it's better shopping, though.
For one, Walnut Street is just a few blocks of retail. St. Catherine goes on forever.
Well yeah, that's what I meant. High scale. I didn't necessarily mean better. I should've worded that better.
Plus the shopping district in Center City is forming more of a square between Walnut and Chestnut lately. A lot of upscale options cropping up on Chestnut now that Walnut is practically void of vacancies.
Someone did a thread a while back on SSP that showed Montreal has a ridiculously high number of stores in its downtown, higher than both SF and Chicago.
On a semi-related note, #2 in the country, you would never guess, was Los Angeles. With almost 1500 more stores than Montreal in the same space. It makes sense when you consider that everyone of the wholesalers in the Fashion District is considered a store. http://goo.gl/maps/cEWHn
He's completely incorrect on nightlife however. The largest concentration of nightlife options are in Rittenhouse Square and Washington Square West in the heart of Center City Philadelphia. The next best nightlife options after that are Old City, then Northern Liberties/Fishtown/Waterfront, THEN South Street. http://goo.gl/maps/aQ3PK
Damn I never knew that existed around there. I probably missed it, walking along Chestnut and Market at night. Maybe its because a more heavy crowd concentrates in a smaller area?
This is actually a really good battle (which is rare on C-D).
An associate from Montreal and I were in Center City this past spring and he was blown away by the depth of Center City, from a setting standpoint and a humanity standpoint. He was impressed at Center Citys size which would make me believe that Montreal must be amore intimate setting.
My son visited Montreal on a school trip a few years back. I asked him how it was? Loved it, he said it was like Center City BUT Clean.
Here area few of my photos of Center City Philly.
Last edited by JMT; 12-01-2013 at 07:37 PM..
Reason: only 6 images per post
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