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Old 04-25-2021, 10:01 AM
 
3,733 posts, read 2,885,652 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masssachoicetts View Post
Well I think thats the thing. A lot of people fro gary just end up in the South Side.
If a person has the ability, drive and ambition, they can pull themselves up, to a better life, location, etc. There are numerous smaller towns and/or cities in Indiana or Illinois, that one could pursue, if they want to get out of Gary. Chicago isn't their only choice.
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Old 04-25-2021, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Bergen County, New Jersey
12,159 posts, read 7,989,874 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enean View Post
If a person has the ability, drive and ambition, they can pull themselves up, to a better life, location, etc. There are numerous smaller towns and/or cities in Indiana or Illinois, that one could pursue, if they want to get out of Gary. Chicago isn't their only choice.
Yep a 16 year old teen from an underserved neighborhood in Gary is totally going to go make it work in Boston or Seattle. THey are driving there now as we speak and geting a job in Life Science and IT respectively. As we speak.

You did it. You solved it. They finally grew up, put their work boots on and made the journey to the coast. Wow, why did no one ever think of this?
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Old 04-25-2021, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Southwest Suburbs
4,593 posts, read 9,192,619 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drro View Post
Is there really no upward mobility possible for the hard working, ambitious residents of Gary, IN? Chicago is near and should provide opportunities. Just make sure you don't end up in the West or South side, that would be more like sideways mobility.

Michael Jackson originated from Gary and made it really big. A textbook example of the American Dream.
Schneider is in Gary, and there is an Indiana University regional campus in town.

Quote:
Originally Posted by masssachoicetts View Post
Well I think thats the thing. A lot of people fro gary just end up in the South Side.
Gary folks end up in Merrillville to the south of it.
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Old 04-25-2021, 12:26 PM
 
1,803 posts, read 934,104 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drro View Post
Is there really no upward mobility possible for the hard working, ambitious residents of Gary, IN? Chicago is near and should provide opportunities. Just make sure you don't end up in the West or South side, that would be more like sideways mobility.

Michael Jackson originated from Gary and made it really big. A textbook example of the American Dream.
I think your luv of American cities of decline, White-Flight, Black and Poor left with far less a ability to move upward and then a new generation of lost and lowly educated left where jobs for them also were gone. American Corporate abandonment and relocation to suburbs and then of course Asia, Japan, Taiwan, then the big kahuna in China..... left manufacturing base cities to had a whole city virtually die to a part of it at best..... by far in the Industrial North.

Anyway, some links or link on Gary and where Whites could move to a new suburban city of Merrillville IN and they did. Merriville boomed and Gary declined. Now Merrillville is a older suburb and its peak perhaps past also and about half now African-American. Still it is not a city of abandonment.

https://allthatsinteresting.com/gary-indiana

Some history and booming to bust era for Gary IN. and some PICTURE For your pleasure.
From the link.
- Like many steel towns that struggled to stay alive, Gary, Indiana has become a ghostly shell of its former glory.
- Gary, Indiana was once a mecca for America's steel industry in the 1960s. But half a century later, it has become a desolate ghost town.
- By the end of the 1980s, mills in Northern Indiana, including Gary, were still making about a quarter of all the steel production in the U.S.
- And yet, number of steelworkers in Gary fell from 32,000 in 1970 to 7,000 in 2005. As such, the city's population also dropped from 175,415 in 1970 to less than 100,000 in the same time span, as many of the city's residents left town to seek out work.
- As of 2018, about 75,000 people still live in Gary, Indiana. But the town is struggling to stay alive.
- Job opportunities went away as businesses closed and crime rose. By the early 1990s, Gary was no longer called the "Magic City" but instead the "Murder Capital" of America.
- The town's failing economy and quality of life are no better expressed than through the neglect of its buildings. An estimated 20 percent of Gary's buildings are totally abandoned.
- Today, about 81 percent of Gary's population is black.
- Jobs at Gary Works -- almost 50 years after the first layoffs in the 1970s -- are still being cut, and about 36 percent of Gary residents live in poverty.

- Unlike their white neighbors, the town's African American workers faced uphill battles trying to build a better life during Gary's decline.
- "When the jobs left, the whites could move, and they did. But we blacks didn't have a choice," 78-year-old Walter Bell told The Guardian in 2017.
- He explained: "They wouldn't let us into their new neighborhoods with the good jobs, or if they let us, we sure as hell couldn't afford it. Then to make it worse, when we looked at the nice houses they left behind, we couldn't buy them because the banks wouldn't lend us money."
- Maria Garcia, whose brother and husband worked at Gary's steel mill, noticed the neighborhood's changing face. When she first moved there in the 1960s, her neighbors were mostly whites, some from European countries like Poland and Germany.
- But Garcia said many of them left in the 1980s because "they started seeing black people coming in," a phenomenon typically known as "white flight."
- "Racism killed Gary," Garcia said. "The whites left Gary, and the blacks couldn't. Simple as that."


Though those on the Far Right of the political spectrum today. Deny there was systemic Racism.... well Gary is clearly a example. Its segregation was total. Blacks restricted to their neighborhood. Many immigrants to theirs and White's to theirs. Then it all fell apart as the jobs dried up also.

Now for another side.... here is a more Right leaning link and what it dwells on. This a 2012 link.

https://www.amren.com/news/2012/09/t...ive-covenants/

*** Just a NOTE on the above link and what Wiki says.... American Renaissance is a monthly white supremacist online publication founded and edited by Jared Taylor. It is published by the New Century Foundation, which describes itself as a "race-realist, white advocacy organization".

From the link.
- with a population that nearly 100 percent white in 1920, Gary saw a migration of 15,000 Black migrants between 1920 and 1930. At 18 percent of the population of Gary in 1930, another 20,000 Black people would join them by 1940–lured by work in the steel mills.
- The city’s decline began in the 1960s as overseas steel production squeezed U.S. makers and accelerated in the 1970s as “white flight” prompted the rapid growth of surrounding cities. More than 80% of Gary’s residents are black.
- At its peak in the 1950s, Gary’s population topped 200,000, only to plunge in subsequent decades to about 80,000 in 2010.

- Wait a second: why can’t the 84 percent Black population sustain the wealth that white people left behind? Why can’t they keep alive the businesses? Why can’t they keep alive the high property valuations? How come the migration of Black people to Gary brought high levels of crime and violence that caused white people to flee the city? Why can’t the majority Black population ignite that entrepreneurial spirit, innovate, attract outside investments, and diversify the economy (as happened in Pittsburgh — another city built on steel)?
- The answer is self-explanatory: because the population is less than 10 percent white and 84 percent Black.
- Because Black people (outside of state and federal welfare, handouts, subsidies, and grants) have no purchasing power, the city needed an emergency infusion of cash in 2009 from the Obama stimulus fund. In all, Gary received $266 million in stimulus funds [Gary, Indiana: Unbroken spirit amid the ruins of the 20th Century, BBC, by Paul Mason, 10-12-2010]:

- This is the cost of “Manifest Destruction.” Gary isn’t suffering from Urban Blight–that’s just a symptom of the real problem. It’s not suffering from crime, high foreclosure rates, bad schools, or lack of outside capital investment in the infrastructure (and potentially investors who would open up businesses that could provide some semblance of a commercial tax-base); it’s suffering from the unmentionable legacy of the migration of Black people and the overwhelming of a once prosperous white city.

- With no ability to raise a local income tax it is reliant on property tax. But the State of Indiana passed laws capping tax raising powers, so by 2012 Gary’s tax income from property will halve.

- Indeed, where the white people went once they escaped Gary, prosperity flourished. Thriving business and commercial districts, safe streets, outside investments, and good schools were just an outgrowth of this migration [ Hurt feelings continue over Northwest Indiana town’s creation [Merrillville, Ind. experiencing now a little of what Gary did 40 years ago, WBEZ 91.5, 8-31-2012]:


Lot more.... Link also goes into Merrillville IN's rise. Its change from lily White also. True even today.... still perhaps still with its Suburban Ranch homes built in the 1970s.... it still is a far cry from Gary, IN. Merrillville is now over 40% Black and as another said in this thread.... if you can get out of Gary as a Black person.... perhaps Merrillville is where you go staying in the region?

**** Also a NOTE.... I in no way say either link is fake. Just different perspectives of sorts.... one blames a Race itself it seems .... one on Systemic Racism perhaps?
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Old 04-26-2021, 06:42 AM
 
7,072 posts, read 9,612,877 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justabystander View Post

The worst "ghettos" i have seen were Highland Park, Michigan., a once wealthy town surrounded by Detroit,
The former home of the Chrysler corporation.
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Old 05-06-2021, 08:44 PM
 
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
44 posts, read 34,218 times
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Some parts of North Philly are really bad in terms of looks. But Detroit takes the cake IMO. So much empty land makes it look deserted, and a lot of major intersections are essentially a few stores and maybe a bus stop. Some nice areas though.
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Old 05-07-2021, 05:13 AM
 
3,733 posts, read 2,885,652 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masssachoicetts View Post
Yep a 16 year old teen from an underserved neighborhood in Gary is totally going to go make it work in Boston or Seattle. THey are driving there now as we speak and geting a job in Life Science and IT respectively. As we speak.

You did it. You solved it. They finally grew up, put their work boots on and made the journey to the coast. Wow, why did no one ever think of this?
Usually a discussion on topics like this, isn't about children. I failed to see the part where we were discussing jobs for teens.

Last edited by Enean; 05-07-2021 at 05:36 AM..
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Old 05-08-2021, 01:07 AM
 
2,339 posts, read 2,930,081 times
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Baltimore provides some amazing images as well:

McMechan street: some boarded up row homes.
Wilhelm street: whole street boarded up.
S Pulaski street: most of the street boarded up.
W Pratt street: same here.
S Addison street: a back alley with boarded up homes.
Harmison street: a back alley with a house falling apart.
N Longwood street: a boarded up row of homes near the infamous Leakin Park ...
N Lovegrove street: dangerously looking back-alley.

What's interesting about Baltimore is how much the building style resembles the British building style in the old industrial cities, how long some of the buildings have suffered from neglect to the point that the roofs start to come down, and how some of the most dangerous streets are not even that blighted.
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Old 05-08-2021, 09:11 AM
 
Location: St. Louis
2,693 posts, read 3,187,296 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rowhomecity View Post
I wonder as real estate prices continue to escalate to extreme levels... if the older industrial legacy cities will see a booming housing development...

Places like Detroit, Baltimore, St. Louis etc... where housing prices are still so low to cause people to move there in droves??

I know in Philadelphia the development cannot keep up with the demand and housing is starting to sky rocket like crazy and gentrification in Philadelphia is on a scale that DC saw in the early 2000s...
The housing market is insane regardless of where you are city wise. Obviously prices can be extremely different depending on the location, but it's a knife fight if you're looking to buy these days.

That being said, some of the cities you have in mind aren't nearly as rock bottom as you're thinking in terms of price. Here's the current average housing price according to Zillow for some of the major Midwestern cities (city proper only) plus Philadelphia and Baltimore since you mentioned them:

Minneapolis - $318,146
Chicago - $292,302
Philadelphia - $215,000
Columbus - $200,515
Cincinnati - $199,689
Kansas City - $194,803
Indianpolis - $180,776
Baltimore - $176,551
Milwaukee - $157,607
St. Louis - $153,594
Cleveland - $86,559
Detroit - $49,909

I'm most familiar with St. Louis, and prices are skyrocketing. Doesn't matter that we're the most dangerous city in the nation, doesn't matter that you can still get a home in parts of north city for pennies in comparison to other cities, etc.

I'm frankly confused as to why Detroit and Cleveland are still so low.
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Old 05-08-2021, 11:35 AM
 
Location: Northern United States
824 posts, read 711,917 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masssachoicetts View Post
Yep a 16 year old teen from an underserved neighborhood in Gary is totally going to go make it work in Boston or Seattle. THey are driving there now as we speak and geting a job in Life Science and IT respectively. As we speak.

You did it. You solved it. They finally grew up, put their work boots on and made the journey to the coast. Wow, why did no one ever think of this?
I agree, I don’t even think the age matters half the time. I think when people are really(extremely) naive about ambition, and where it gets you. If you have no ambition, you aren’t really going to go anywhere in life, that much is true, but ambition/hard-work only takes you so far.

It’s hard to have ambition in life when your friends around you growing up were killed, in jail or doing absolutely nothing. It’s hard to have ambition when your parents are on drugs and are abusive. It’s hard to be ambitious when you are depressed/have anxiety. It’s hard to have ambition when not only your parents grew up poor, but their parents, and the parents before them also lived like that.

Blue-collar and retail work only takes you so far, and even with places that have mobility, it takes you often decades to make 23 dollars an hour. Not to say that you can’t make a good living off blue collar work, or 40k a year, especially if you are coming from a poor background. but the concept of owning a mansion in the hills of LA, making 260k a year, and owning a sports car is hard to get through if you are coming from a background of growing up in Gary, IN in a household that makes 22k a year close to impossible.

The true key to social mobility is getting a bachelors degree, and then eventually getting a graduate degree. It just takes a lot of steps to get to the place where you can go to a good 4-year college and then getting a masters, and having a good family support structure is often the first step there, and a lot of lower-income people simply don’t have that.

Again, I don’t know if it’s super difficult to go from low-income to lower-middle class, but getting above that point starts to become extremely difficult if you don’t have a degree or really really good connections.
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