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He makes a good argument. However, It is not so easy to separate our political will from our Christianity, particularly when it comes to abortion. First of all, I can only effect the policies of this nation with my vote. I really don't have a say in any other nation. Not that we can't collectively pressure another nation into a view, but my individual power is certainly lacking for anything but the United States. One can argue, I don't even have much of that. Having said that, the pastor piles abortion, war, and poverty into a basket of social life issues. By far, in this country, abortion is the greatest taker of life in numbers and is particularly heinous since it is the taking of the most innocent of lives. It does not involve an adult making a decision to fight for our country and losing his life in the battlefield. It involves the taking of life that is so completely dependent on our goodness and holiness.
There are many issues to consider when voting for someone on a whole range of issues. But abortion, if you are truly Christian is simply something you cannot condone. I submit to you that there is no ambiguity when it comes to abortion. Are you doing God's work by voting for a pro-choice candidate? I think not. You cannot separate the sanctity of life from a true Christian. Therefore you should not separate your vote from your Christianity.
To me, abortion, in this nation, is still the top priority when it comes to voting and therefore, the pastor just has it wrong in that regard. I do give him credit that keeping the nation and the Kingdom of God separate is important, but that doesn't mean you should toss your Christianity in the trashcan when you get to the voting booth.
I read his book and it is excellent and full of insight but Greg also has alot of other theological view points that I completely disagree with.
I do highly recommend this book however.
Although I believe Greg is very sincere I have found alot of wholes in much of his teaching. So I recommend to be careful what you take in from him and weigh it against the WORD of truth.........
abortion is the greatest taker of life in numbers and is particularly heinous since it is the taking of the most innocent of lives. It does not involve an adult making a decision to fight for our country and losing his life in the battlefield.
But you do understand that the battle you describe must be won in the mind of the mother, right? I understand that you cannot (in good conscience) support the idea of abortion, but that's for your good conscience - it doesn't help the unborn.
But you do understand that the battle you describe must be won in the mind of the mother, right? I understand that you cannot (in good conscience) support the idea of abortion, but that's for your good conscience - it doesn't help the unborn.
Why? Do we try to win the minds of the murderers, rapists etc... or do we pass laws to curb their behaviour? Look I am NOT comparing women and men who have abortions to muderers and rapists because if I was then I am included in that as well. I am showing that when it comes to abortion the government shows their double standard. The governement passes moral laws when it pertains to rapists and muderers but even though the majority believe abortion to be morally wrong and inhumane yet now they don't believe they should interfere in the moral judgments of others dealing with abortion. The government interferes in our lives everyday yet with abortion it's not their problem and they leave it up to the individual to make the right descision however it might be. Imagine if we did that with all our moral law?
Last edited by Fundamentalist; 11-04-2009 at 07:53 AM..
I didn't watch the video because typical liberal historical manipulation but I think I am pretty nuetral when it comes to such issues being a Canadian but any fool can see the United States was built on Christian principles that is not to say, America is perfect or somehow Christlike but when I look at America's history and how this nation was founded on democracy, freedom of religion, structure of government it is very simple to see that Christianity had a heavy influence in the building of this nation.
It is the process of elmination. I see no influence of Hinduism, Muslim, Buddhism, atheism, Krishna, wonka tonka. Washington DC is inundated with Christian influence from the ten commandments in the Supreme Court to the scriptures inscribes on Thomas Jefferson's tomb.
Last edited by Fundamentalist; 11-04-2009 at 07:52 AM..
He makes a good argument. However, It is not so easy to separate our political will from our Christianity, particularly when it comes to abortion. First of all, I can only effect the policies of this nation with my vote. I really don't have a say in any other nation. Not that we can't collectively pressure another nation into a view, but my individual power is certainly lacking for anything but the United States. One can argue, I don't even have much of that. Having said that, the pastor piles abortion, war, and poverty into a basket of social life issues. By far, in this country, abortion is the greatest taker of life in numbers and is particularly heinous since it is the taking of the most innocent of lives. It does not involve an adult making a decision to fight for our country and losing his life in the battlefield. It involves the taking of life that is so completely dependent on our goodness and holiness.
There are many issues to consider when voting for someone on a whole range of issues. But abortion, if you are truly Christian is simply something you cannot condone. I submit to you that there is no ambiguity when it comes to abortion. Are you doing God's work by voting for a pro-choice candidate? I think not. You cannot separate the sanctity of life from a true Christian. Therefore you should not separate your vote from your Christianity.
To me, abortion, in this nation, is still the top priority when it comes to voting and therefore, the pastor just has it wrong in that regard. I do give him credit that keeping the nation and the Kingdom of God separate is important, but that doesn't mean you should toss your Christianity in the trashcan when you get to the voting booth.
I grew up as a conservative Christian in a "fundamentalist" church and high school. I always supported anti-abortion people and conservatives and Republicans. I am still pro-life and anti-abortion. However, as I went to college and became educated and able to think for myself, it is as if my eyes were opened to some things that were previously hidden from me by my own blind obedience to the "Christian Right" as opposed to God.
When I vote, my duty is to vote as a Christian in a way that most pleases God. That means being educated about the situation. Well, when it comes to abortion, it is very clear to me that nobody who is running for office really wants to get rid of abortion.
All I have seen all my life is that the conservatives have used abortion as the carrot on the stick to keep getting my vote. They don't care about abortion. But they will use it to get votes, get elected, and then not only KEEP abortion, but also they make other policies which kill and hurt the born, in this country and around the world.
After 8 years of Bush and outright lying conservatives and Republicans, I've learned my lesson, and that is to never again vote on the issue of abortion. These people will dangle that carrot, along with other ones that they don't care about doing anything about, just to get votes from gullible people, including well-intentioned Christians who want to vote their conscience; they exploit that and then don't deliver on their promises.
I never hear a thing from conservatives about abortion until elections. In between, they couldn't care less.
Forget those liars, and forget voting with abortion as an issue. None of them will do anything about it, they will just lie to string out more votes so they can be elected and do more damage while never doing a thing about abortion.
The governement passes moral laws when it pertains to rapists and muderers..
Uhh... no. The government doesn't pass laws based on morality with respect to rapists and murderers.. they pass laws with respect to protecting the freedoms of people (i.e. the freedom not to be raped)..
We don't have private property laws from a moral perspective.. they are there to protect an individuals freedoms..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist
but even though the majority believe abortion to be morally wrong and inhumane yet now they don't believe they should interfere in the moral judgments of others dealing with abortion.
As such.. something being morally wrong doesn't matter. The abortion fight is specifically over the personal freedom a woman has over her body. Again.. freedoms.. not morality.
Last thing we need is the government dictating morality..
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Part 2
