Regarding the Pre-Tribulational Rapture (Antichrist, exodus, scripture, Christ)
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Time to bone up on your history. Ezekiel 37 was fulfilled in 536 BC when Cyrus allowed the Jews to return to Israel. Ezekiel wrote Chapter 37 sometime between 593 and 571 BC.
Of course, you could only believe Ezekiel 37 was fulfilled back then if you ignore Ezekiel 38 and 39. It's always best to read the entire prophecy, and not just the parts that fit your worldview.
I tend not to get into "End Timer" conversations....
I also tend to not get mixed up in forum topics that deal with the End Times.
The reason is, is that every system has it all worked out.
There is no such thing as a Bible verse that you can point to that every end times idea has not already got a handy answer for.
I went out with a 7th dayer girl for a while, and her dad talked to me about stuff, and they have every verse answered...
They are wrong, but that don't mean that don't have a well thought out system.
What? David is to be resurrected and made king? What happened to the thought that Jesus is set up on David's throne?
Good Lord there are some outrageous ideas out there I haven't even hear of yet!
Can you post a link to a more in depth article about what you say so I can read it?
Thanks!
Sure, just read Ezekiel 37 and 38.
Also, just because you call an idea "outrageous" does not make it so. In other words, to make such a statement proves nothing.
I'm not saying I have prophecy all worked out; I don't. But it appears there might be an interim period between when we of the nations are taken out per
For this we are saying to you by the word of the Lord, that we, the living, who are surviving to the presence of the Lord, should by no means outstrip those who are put to repose, for the Lord Himself will be descending from heaven with a shout of command, with the voice of the Chief Messenger, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ shall be rising first, Thereupon we, the living who are surviving, shall at the same time be snatched away together with them in clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And thus shall we always be together with the Lord."
(1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 CLV)
And the time when:
Rom 11:26 And thus all Israel shall be saved, according as it is written, Arriving out of Zion shall be the Rescuer. He will be turning away irreverence from Jacob."
And so it could be King David will rule during that period or he may have some rulership under Christ during the millennium.
One thing is for sure, David must be resurrected once those Jews are brought back to life in the valley of dry bones and he must reign again.
Also, just because you call an idea "outrageous" does not make it so. In other words, to make such a statement proves nothing.
I have read Ezekiel and I don't see it. Also, I didn't mean that the idea was a bad outrageous just that I had never heard of that before.
Quote:
I'm not saying I have prophecy all worked out; I don't. But it appears there might be an interim period between when we of the nations are taken out per
For this we are saying to you by the word of the Lord, that we, the living, who are surviving to the presence of the Lord, should by no means outstrip those who are put to repose, for the Lord Himself will be descending from heaven with a shout of command, with the voice of the Chief Messenger, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ shall be rising first, Thereupon we, the living who are surviving, shall at the same time be snatched away together with them in clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And thus shall we always be together with the Lord."
(1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 CLV)
And the time when:
Rom 11:26 And thus all Israel shall be saved, according as it is written, Arriving out of Zion shall be the Rescuer. He will be turning away irreverence from Jacob."
See this is where we differ. I see Jesus as the ruler on the throne of David.. you see David himself. I see that it was the first century christians that were the subject of 1 Thess. after all they were the ones being spoken/written to.
Quote:
And so it could be King David will rule during that period or he may have some rulership under Christ during the millennium.
One thing is for sure, David must be resurrected once those Jews are brought back to life in the valley of dry bones and he must reign again.
I appreciate your candidness as I like to learn all points of view.
I will say though that I hadn't heard this version but since then I have read about it on the berean church website, but as I read it I still don't see the case for David to be reanimated to rule. The bible makes it clear that Jesus is from the line of David, doesn't it? So most people I know think that Jesus is the "new David" not that the "old David" will rule again.
Of course, you could only believe Ezekiel 37 was fulfilled back then if you ignore Ezekiel 38 and 39. It's always best to read the entire prophecy, and not just the parts that fit your worldview.
Hi Campbell34,
You mean with the horses and bucklers?
How do you explain Edom being in the future in 36?
Ezekiel 36,
“Surely I have spoken in My burning jealousy against the rest of the nations and against all Edom, who gave My land to themselves as a possession, with wholehearted joy and spiteful minds, in order to plunder its open country.”
Obadiah
17 “ But on Mount Zion there shall be deliverance,
And there shall be holiness;
The house of Jacob shall possess their possessions.
18 The house of Jacob shall be a fire,
And the house of Joseph a flame;
But the house of Esau shall be stubble;
They shall kindle them and devour them,
And no survivor shall remain of the house of Esau,”
For the LORD has spoken.
19 The South[c] shall possess the mountains of Esau,
And the Lowland shall possess Philistia.
They shall possess the fields of Ephraim
And the fields of Samaria.
here Edom was already laid to waste.
Malachi 1
Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?”
Says the LORD.
“ Yet Jacob I have loved;
3 But Esau I have hated,
And laid waste his mountains and his heritage
For the jackals of the wilderness.”
4 Even though Edom has said,
“ We have been impoverished,
But we will return and build the desolate places,”
Also, just because you call an idea "outrageous" does not make it so. In other words, to make such a statement proves nothing.
I'm not saying I have prophecy all worked out; I don't. But it appears there might be an interim period between when we of the nations are taken out per
For this we are saying to you by the word of the Lord, that we, the living, who are surviving to the presence of the Lord, should by no means outstrip those who are put to repose, for the Lord Himself will be descending from heaven with a shout of command, with the voice of the Chief Messenger, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ shall be rising first, Thereupon we, the living who are surviving, shall at the same time be snatched away together with them in clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And thus shall we always be together with the Lord."
(1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 CLV)
And the time when:
Rom 11:26 And thus all Israel shall be saved, according as it is written, Arriving out of Zion shall be the Rescuer. He will be turning away irreverence from Jacob."
And so it could be King David will rule during that period or he may have some rulership under Christ during the millennium.
One thing is for sure, David must be resurrected once those Jews are brought back to life in the valley of dry bones and he must reign again.
Hi Eusebius,
Speaking of world views and plucking things out of context, Paul talks through out Romans that the special nation status of Israel is over not to mention everywhere else like the end of Acts. In Romans 11 he makes it clear it would be a remnant. That remnant was spared the judgment. The whole pre-tribe system is a mess and when I post a simple verse like this, its over. There is no answer.
Hebrews 9
26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
This ends the debate about when the end times was and it should be no surprise since that was the end of the 70 weeks. The only people who don't know the argument is over are brain washed end timers. I was one for 20 years.
How do you explain Edom being in the future in 36?
Ezekiel 36,
“Surely I have spoken in My burning jealousy against the rest of the nations and against all Edom, who gave My land to themselves as a possession, with wholehearted joy and spiteful minds, in order to plunder its open country.”
Obadiah
17 “ But on Mount Zion there shall be deliverance,
And there shall be holiness;
The house of Jacob shall possess their possessions.
18 The house of Jacob shall be a fire,
And the house of Joseph a flame;
But the house of Esau shall be stubble;
They shall kindle them and devour them,
And no survivor shall remain of the house of Esau,”
For the LORD has spoken.
19 The South[c] shall possess the mountains of Esau,
And the Lowland shall possess Philistia.
They shall possess the fields of Ephraim
And the fields of Samaria.
here Edom was already laid to waste.
Malachi 1
Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?”
Says the LORD.
“ Yet Jacob I have loved;
3 But Esau I have hated,
And laid waste his mountains and his heritage For the jackals of the wilderness.”
4 Even though Edom has said,
“ We have been impoverished,
But we will return and build the desolate places,”
Some believe that when God gave a vision to His prophets, He showed them things to come in a view and a context that they could understand. Thus horses, and bucklers.
And sometimes God uses common Biblical names from the past, to describe a different place that may be similar, yet found in a different location in the future. In the Old Testament it speaks of Babylon. Yet in the New Testament it speaks of "MYSTERY BABYLON". Clearly not the same Babylon, and clearly not to found in the old location. I believe God writes the Bible this way to make it easy for non believers to dismiss the Biblical account.
Speaking of world views and plucking things out of context, Paul talks through out Romans that the special nation status of Israel is over not to mention everywhere else like the end of Acts. In Romans 11 he makes it clear it would be a remnant. That remnant was spared the judgment. The whole pre-tribe system is a mess and when I post a simple verse like this, its over. There is no answer.
Hebrews 9
26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
This ends the debate about when the end times was and it should be no surprise since that was the end of the 70 weeks. The only people who don't know the argument is over are brain washed end timers. I was one for 20 years.
The 70 weeks are not determined by time, but rather events. And those events are based on the Jewish people, and Jerusalem. And to date, only 69 weeks have been fulfilled. It's not a question of being brain washed, it's a question of following the Biblical prophecy. And I have been doing that, for almost 40 years. And the only thing that ends this debate, is your lack of knowledge.
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