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It is the Holy Spirit who is the mentor. The pastor/teacher is simply a man who has been given the spiritual gift of pastor/teacher by the Holy Spirit (Eph. 4:11) for the purpose of communicating the truth, the body of doctrine that is in the Bible. When you have learned doctrine from the correct teaching of the pastor,(the pastor must be prepared through the knowledge of the original languages and years of training in isagogical, categorical and exegetical methods), and have metabolised that doctrine so that it is EPIGNOSIS, (knowledge fully understood), then the Holy Spirit works with that metabolised doctrine in guiding you in your spiritual life as a believer in Christ.
Nonsense. God would not make understanding and loving Him such a complicated and arcane process. Read "through the eyes of love and the mind of Christ" . . . not twenty first century man-made doctrines. The Holy Spirit within will let you know what "feels" right and what is counter to the "love of God and each other."
My question to you, Mike is; Do you believe a New Dispensation has come and a New Beginning?
Since the day of Penecost which occurred fifty days after the resurrection of Christ, we have been and are in the Church Age dispensation. This dispensation will be terminated with the rapture (resurrection) of the Church.
At that point, the last seven years remaining to The Age of Israel (the Tribulation) will resume while the Church is in Heaven being prepared for the wedding of the Church to Christ. Remember that on earth the Church is called the body of Christ and in the future, the Church is the bride of Christ.
After the Tribulation is terminated at the second advent of Christ, then the last dispensation of human history will commence. The Millennial Dispensation, or Age of Christ. At the end of the Millennium, time ceases and eternity continues on in the absence of time. The eternal state.
Since the day of Penecost which occurred fifty days after the resurrection of Christ, we have been and are in the Church Age dispensation. This dispensation will be terminated with the rapture (resurrection) of the Church.
At that point, the last seven years remaining to The Age of Israel (the Tribulation) will resume while the Church is in Heaven being prepared for the wedding of the Church to Christ. Remember that on earth the Church is called the body of Christ and in the future, the Church is the bride of Christ.
After the Tribulation is terminated at the second advent of Christ, then the last dispensation of human history will commence. The Millennial Dispensation, or Age of Christ. At the end of the Millennium, time ceases and eternity continues on in the absence of time. The eternal state.
I've never been able to see the "rapture" in the Bible. Yes, I've had all the verses pointed out to me, heard them preached on thousands of times. But they don't seem to be saying the same thing to me that "rapturists" (for lack of a better word) think they are.
Strict dispensationalism, while having some valid points (for instance, it's clear that God dealt differently with OT saints than with us), seems to be all too cut-and-dried, too neatly packaged, to my mind. Something about it just doesn't seem right to me.
So I just hold the general belief that things are going to get worse before they get better, and that Jesus will come again and make all things new, and if I need to understand that anything in Revelation is happening NOW, or I need to be prepared for something that is about to happen, God will make that clear to me through His spirit.
I've never been able to see the "rapture" in the Bible. Yes, I've had all the verses pointed out to me, heard them preached on thousands of times. But they don't seem to be saying the same thing to me that "rapturists" (for lack of a better word) think they are.
Strict dispensationalism, while having some valid points (for instance, it's clear that God dealt differently with OT saints than with us), seems to be all too cut-and-dried, too neatly packaged, to my mind. Something about it just doesn't seem right to me.
So I just hold the general belief that things are going to get worse before they get better, and that Jesus will come again and make all things new, and if I need to understand that anything in Revelation is happening NOW, or I need to be prepared for something that is about to happen, God will make that clear to me through His spirit.
Yeah.. the waiting and predicting of his return is ridiculed by some so probably don't wanna jump on that bandwagon.
I agree with you about the dispensations. So neatly packaged. Like something a human would do. And if you use a measuring stick that you created it is only true measurement to you, not necessarily the truth or the truth to others who may have a different measuring stick.
Nonsense. God would not make understanding and loving Him such a complicated and arcane process. Read "through the eyes of love and the mind of Christ" . . . not twenty first century man-made doctrines. The Holy Spirit within will let you know what "feels" right and what is counter to the "love of God and each other."
What 'feels' right has absolutely nothing to do with the plan of God. It is knowledge of God, and not emotions, that is required to advance to spiritual maturity. Without being grounded in the knowledge of God as revealed in His word, then we have no anchor with which to be stabilized in our spiritual life. But instead we get tossed around by every false doctrine that Satan throws our way. Emotions are subjective. Knowledge of the word of God is objective.
The Bible is the absolute norm and standard, the ruler by which we are to live our Christian life on this earth. Bible doctrine transferred into our souls is what the Holy Spirit uses to direct us and guide us.
We are commanded to 'grow by means of grace in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.' (2 Peter 3:18).
For I delight in loyalty rather than sacrifice, And in the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings. (Hosea 6:6)
The proper function of emotion is as a responder. Emotional appreciation of God comes from knowledge of God. You can't have personal love for someone you don't know. And impersonal love is a mental attitude rather than an emotion. It is about what you know and what you think. Not what you feel.
And don't bring the pharisees into it. They didn't know God, they rejected Christ because they didn't know Him. The only thing they knew was the letter of the Law without even knowing the spirit, the intent of the Law.
Last edited by Michael Way; 09-24-2009 at 11:07 AM..
What 'feels' right has absolutely nothing to do with the plan of God. It is knowledge of God, and not emotions, that are required to advance to spiritual maturity. Without being grounded in the knowledge of God as revealed in His word, then we have no anchor with which to be stabilized in our spiritual life. But instead we get tossed around by every false doctrine that Satan throws our way. Emotions are subjective. Knowledge of the word of God is objective.
The Bible is the absolute norm and standard, the ruler by which we are to live our Christian life on this earth. Bible doctrine transferred into our souls is what the Holy Spirit uses to direct us and guide us.
We are commanded to 'grow by means of grace in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.' (2 Peter 3:18).
What feels right has everything to do with it. Self-control of our emotions is what produces the strong soul. Knowledge of Jesus's love and grace is what motivates us to develop that self-control. There is no mention of the bible or of your man-made doctrines in your 2 Peter quote. It is knwoledge of the "mind of Christ" that should guide us. He is within us in the form of the Holy Spirit and we have direct access "written in our hearts" . . . because the OT did not work in written form. It produced "letter of the law" nonsense by the Pharisees and (as you predicted I would say) "letter of the written word" teachers of today.
Quote:
For I delight in loyalty rather than sacrifice, And in the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings. (Hosea 6:6)
1 Corinthians 2:16
For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.
Quote:
The proper function of emotion is as a responder. Emotional appreciation of God comes from knowledge of God. You can't have personal love for someone you don't know. And impersonal love is a mental attitude rather than an emotion. It is about what you know and what you think. Not what you feel.
And don't bring the pharisees into it. They didn't know God, they rejected Christ because they didn't know Him. The only thing they knew was the letter of the Law without even knowing the spirit, the intent of the Law.
The irony is so thick you could cut it with a knife.
I've never been able to see the "rapture" in the Bible. Yes, I've had all the verses pointed out to me, heard them preached on thousands of times. But they don't seem to be saying the same thing to me that "rapturists" (for lack of a better word) think they are.
Strict dispensationalism, while having some valid points (for instance, it's clear that God dealt differently with OT saints than with us), seems to be all too cut-and-dried, too neatly packaged, to my mind. Something about it just doesn't seem right to me.
So I just hold the general belief that things are going to get worse before they get better, and that Jesus will come again and make all things new, and if I need to understand that anything in Revelation is happening NOW, or I need to be prepared for something that is about to happen, God will make that clear to me through His spirit.
And just so you all know, according to most of my beliefs, most of you would probably categorize me as a Bible-thumping fundamentalist. But I've just never "gotten" the "secret rapture" doctrine.
When I read stuff like "Foxe's Book of Martyrs", or about Christians who suffered dearly under Communism, etc.....I always wonder if they thought they had missed the rapture? (although most of the people in "Foxe's" probably didn't believe in the rapture....as I understand it, it was not even a widely believed doctrine until years after that girl had her "vision".)
I see a second coming....I don't see a secret rapture.
And just so you all know, according to most of my beliefs, most of you would probably categorize me as a Bible-thumping fundamentalist. But I've just never "gotten" the "secret rapture" doctrine.
When I read stuff like "Foxe's Book of Martyrs", or about Christians who suffered dearly under Communism, etc.....I always wonder if they thought they had missed the rapture? (although most of the people in "Foxe's" probably didn't believe in the rapture....as I understand it, it was not even a widely believed doctrine until years after that girl had her "vision".)
I see a second coming....I don't see a secret rapture.
Well that is good because it is said to happen in the twinkling of an eye so if you blink you would miss it...
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