The other Books (Holy Spirit, mystic, Jesus, Bible)
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If I may, I would like to suggest a book that has been well researched by a true scholar.
New Evidence That Demands a Verdict by Josh McDowell. This book will not only give you plenty of information but the means to check that information as well.
Fundy, you cant fly so dont jump.
I agree, Josh McDowell's book gives plenty of information, especially in the form of a gazillion quotes from other Conservative Christian authors or Apologists with whom he agrees, but nothing I haven't read before in other less biased books.
I'm only about half way through reading it, but it's clear that it's a Christian Apologist book that starts out with the author's statements of Faith and his conclusions, then procedes to look at ONLY "positive" evidence to defend his stance, rather than looking at ALL the evidence, both positive and negative, before drawing conclusions. The content is almost 50% quotes from other authors who have similiar viewpoints to his own, with no original research of his own. Sorry, that's not what I call would well researched by a "true" scholar.
According to a review by J.P Holding at Tekton Apologetics Ministries there isn't really anything new in McDowell's updated book that isn't in the older version that you can read online at the link above: http://www.tektonics.org/books/netdavrvw.html#Review (broken link)
Here's what he had to say about the book:
Quote:
Don't expect it to answer criticisms such as those we found in the old Jury Is In project. (We are at least referred to He Walked Among Us...but it's out of print!) The cover blurb says that it is intended to help Christians "answer questions challenging (them) in the 21st century" but I suspect someone at Thomas Nelson got the numbers on the century reversed. 12th century, perhaps, but use this in the 21st century against the 21st century skeptic or critic and you may as well hand them the keys to the steamroller and lie down on the pavement.
And here's the in-depth critical review from the "Jury Is In" project Holding is referring to in his review.
I have been studying the Word a little more intensely the past few weeks,I hope you had received my letter from yesterday.
I have also been studying "The lost books of the Bible", The Book of Enoch,the Gospel of Thomas, Barnabas,Nicodemus,etc. and it seems that
many of these Books seem to be sound in their writings
and seems on the most part to go along with the canon as we know it today as the Bible.I have been reading that these books with many others were once read as the Word of God,and Christian literature especially around the 4th century and before.That Constantine had a hand in removing or adding what he wanted in the Canon
and that others through out the years have been doing the same thing.Jude 14-15 is taken from the book of Enoch the words are the same.Joshua 10:13 and 2 Samuel 1:18 talks about the Book of Jasher.I have also read about the Book of the war of the Lord in our old testament.(Sorry I will try to find the verse if anyone needs it.)What are your convictions on this......Robert.
May Gods peace be with you all,Amen.
I don't think that their are any lost books of the bible, even though if some think that their is a book of Enoch. But if there is any then if God wants us to find it then we will. If not then He has already given us enough.
I don't think that their are any lost books of the bible, even though if some think that their is a book of Enoch. But if there is any then if God wants us to find it then we will. If not then He has already given us enough.
There is a book of Enoch. Jude quoted from it. The dead sea scrolls contained parts - including the part Jude quoted.
There is a book of Enoch. Jude quoted from it. The dead sea scrolls contained parts - including the part Jude quoted.
Actually they have debated if Jude was actually quoting from the book of Enoch. or somethin else. Until we see that book for our self then we can't say for sure.
Actually they have debated if Jude was actually quoting from the book of Enoch. or somethin else. Until we see that book for our self then we can't say for sure.
What is the Book of Enoch and where did it come from? Enoch was the grandfather of Noah. The Book of Enoch chapter 68:1 "And after that my grandfather Enoch gave me all the secrets in the book and in the parables which had been given to him, and he put them together for me in the words of the book of the parables." This makes it possible for the Book to have survived the flood as its not too hard to accept that Noah would have taken his Great Grandfathers writings with him onto the ark.
The Book of Enoch was extant centuries before the birth of Christ and yet is considered by many to be more Christian in its theology than Jewish. It was considered scripture by many early Christians. The earliest literature of the so-called "Church Fathers" is filled with references to this mysterious book. The early second century "Epistle of Barnabus" makes much use of the Book of Enoch. Second and Third Century "Church Fathers" like Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Origin and Clement of Alexandria all make use of the Book of Enoch. Tertullian (160-230 C.E) even called the Book of Enoch "Holy Scripture". The Ethiopic Church even added the Book of Enoch to its official canon. It was widely known and read the first three centuries after Christ. This and many other books became discredited after the Council of Laodicea. And being under ban of the authorities, afterwards it gradually passed out of circulation.
Actually they have debated if Jude was actually quoting from the book of Enoch. or somethin else. Until we see that book for our self then we can't say for sure.
Maybe what I saw was just a passage in the BOE similar to what Jude quoted.
Lost books are a lot of fun and good for science fiction buffs and end time doom and gloomers. For instance:
In the fifteenth chapter, Enoch writes about the (now deceased) offspring of the giants or Nephilim, and says they "shall be concealed, and shall not rise up against the sons of men... until they come forth during the days of slaughter and destruction."
Also, according to the BOE, the Watchers will rise for a judgment that will be 'for ever and ever' (Enoch 10:12) and the giant offspring of the Watchers will return to wreak havoc upon earth.
There are "seventy generations" that Enoch said would transpire from the time of the flood until the date of these events.
The estimated date for the biblical flood is between BC 2800 and 2900. A prophetic generation is 70 years based on Psalm 90:10 ('The days of our years are threescore years and ten'), so Enoch's 70 generations times 70 years equals exactly 4900 years forward from the flood, bringing us to: (bingo!) today. Yikes!!!
So, does Enoch's 'final judgment' following 70 generations from the flood also correspond to time frame for the Judgment seat of Christ?
See what I mean? Man - that's a fun and dramatic science fiction theme as I've ever seen! Kind of like the Lucifer Myth (story).
To add to all this, whose "canon" are you going to accept, and why? The Catholic Bible? The King James, and all it's modern variations? How about the Ethiopian Bible? The Jewish scriptures? The Mormon Bible? Which "canon" did Jesus recognize? There are a LOT more...
Everyone of these sincerely believe their scripture is the only right and "authorized" official Word from God, and that the rest are wrong, or at the least, incomplete...
Did God ever give any human authority to determine what is, and what is not, the Word of God? How do you know? Just because your pastor says something is so doesn't neccessarily make it true. Remember, the pastors of those other denominations I mentioned are probably saying something entirely different...and they are all very sincere in their beliefs...
What "canon" did the early Christians have? Even if you happen to have a "copy" of a lost book (like, downloaded from the internet), how do you know it really is in fact a verbatim genuine copy of a 2000yr-old (+/-) writing? And, even if it is a genuine copy of an early church writing, how do you know it was God inspired to begin with? How are we to know which book was the very last official "real" word from God? What about the odd stuff found in the Dead Sea Scrolls, that you seldom hear about?
Just asking...
Me? About 99% of the time I go with the King James Version. Perhaps, just perhaps, it is not all of the original God-inspired writings. But...you know what? I don't worry about it...it's enough...it works for me. To me, it's not worth worrying that I might possibly be missing out on some "lost" book out there in never-never land...
Lost books are a lot of fun and good for science fiction buffs and end time doom and gloomers. For instance:
In the fifteenth chapter, Enoch writes about the (now deceased) offspring of the giants or Nephilim, and says they "shall be concealed, and shall not rise up against the sons of men... until they come forth during the days of slaughter and destruction."
Also, according to the BOE, the Watchers will rise for a judgment that will be 'for ever and ever' (Enoch 10:12) and the giant offspring of the Watchers will return to wreak havoc upon earth.
There are "seventy generations" that Enoch said would transpire from the time of the flood until the date of these events.
The estimated date for the biblical flood is between BC 2800 and 2900. A prophetic generation is 70 years based on Psalm 90:10 ('The days of our years are threescore years and ten'), so Enoch's 70 generations times 70 years equals exactly 4900 years forward from the flood, bringing us to: (bingo!) today. Yikes!!!
So, does Enoch's 'final judgment' following 70 generations from the flood also correspond to time frame for the Judgment seat of Christ?
See what I mean? Man - that's a fun and dramatic science fiction theme as I've ever seen! Kind of like the Lucifer Myth (story).
Finally I get how some believe the Nephilim will be a part of the end times! And now I finally know where the Watchers come in. Thanks for tying loose ends together for me. lol (I think it makes some of Wilvan's posts make more sense now.)
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