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7 In [g]Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He [h]lavished on [i]us. In all wisdom and insight 9 He [j]made known to us the mystery of His **will, according to His [k]kind intention which He purposed in Him 10 with a view to an administration [l]suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the **summing up of all things in Christ, things [m]in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him 11 [n]also we [o]have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, 12 to the end that we who were the first to hope in [p]Christ would be to the praise of His glory
**Will-Thelema=resolve, the will of God which must be done, what one wishes or has determined what shall be done (Greek Hebrew Word Study and Strongs)
**Summing up = anakephalaioomai-to gather together again in one, to reunite in or under one head
**Counsel- Boule-will, intention, decree, decision, plan
This tells me that Paul told the believers at Ephesus that God plans to reunite all things in heaven and on earth, in Jesus Christ in the fullness of the times. This is His plan. He will accomplish this.
I agree that most will not inherit the kingdom and that that people will be blotted out of the book of life.
I understand this in the context of the ages that God has created through Jesus Christ.
All will not enjoy the blessings associated with the kingdom in this age and in the age to come. There are at least two more ages coming and then comes the end of the ages.
And I use more literal translations of some of the scriptures that you shared.
See what you did? Instead of believing what you are reading and hearing, you have to make different ages that aren't in the Bible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShanaBrown
I believe that eventually all will be saved because God tells us that He will have all to be saved and that He is able to accomplish all His good pleasure.
If He wants it, He gets it.
Nothing, not man's so called free will, satan, evil or whatever can stop God from accomplishing what He wants for His own creation.
So according to you, you believe all those scriptures I gave about being blotted out FOREVER...but to you, it is NOT really forever, just until another age?
See what you are doing?
You are not believing the scriptures as you say you do.
When reading the Bible, we have to be careful not to change God's words.
It is a serious matter to change God's words.
So when we read those scriptures about forever, we are to believe and accept it, no matter how hard it is to hear it, we don't then say no not forever.
Maybe you mean that some people WERE blotted out forever but no more blotting out anyone anymore?
Is that what you mean? It is my desire to really understand others beliefs, so please explain it more to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShanaBrown
He is able to subdue all things to Himself as Philippians 3:21 tells us.
Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
This all things, includes all hearts.
I believe this.
No one will be disobedient to Him forever.
The creation is to be delivered and changed.
Romans 8
18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. 19 For the eagerly awaiting creation waits for the revealing of the sons and daughters of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, [n]in **hope 21 that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
**hope-elpis= expectation, confidence
No one is excluded from God's creation.
I don't believe that God cannot cause all people to repent just as He did with King Nebuchadnezzar.
I do not deny the scriptures that tell me that God will restore all to Himself.
God bless.
All being subject to Him doesn't mean that all will be saved.
What you are saying seems like a beautiful thought, but we have to trust in God's way as being better.
See what you did? Instead of believing what you are reading and hearing, you have to make different ages that aren't in the Bible.
There are different ages. God created them through Jesus. The scriptures tell us this. It is good to have more literal translations like the Young's Translation and the corresponding Young's Analytical Concordance, and the Concordant Literal Translations of the Old and New Testaments.. I will share a little later tonight, Lord willing. I must go to work now.
God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 01-21-2023 at 02:32 PM..
There are different ages. God created them through Jesus. The scriptures tell us this. It is good to have more literal translations like the Young's Translation and the corresponding Young's Analytical Concordance, and the Concordant Literal Translations of the Old and New Testaments.. I will share a little later tonight, Lord willing. I must go to work now.
God bless.
God bless.
It will be good for us to discuss more. Have a good day at work.
Heb. 2:9 "Jesus, was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone."
God’s grace saves all. Jesus experienced a one time death on the cross and was brought back to life. He tasted death, which is the wages of sin. ECT is false because Jesus would have to be tortured forever, yet He came back to life. Annihilationism is false because Jesus would have to stay dead, and yet He rose back to life.
The Bible says that there are good spirits and evil spirits. As such, evil spirits would also have the ability to give people NDE's that falsely talk about Hell, in order to prevent them from realizing the Lord's love for all people.
1 John 4:1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
Because also those deceitful spirits would know that the NDE would get published and scare more people, causing more suffering to people and preventing them from understanding the true magnitude of God's love, which is extended to everyone!
1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons
When someone is about to die, they are very vulnerable. People remember most these experiences. For a demon, this would be the perfect opportunity to plant a false doctrine (ECT) in their head to terrorize them. Because people who are scared of Hell, they don't do things out of love, but out of fear.
1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
And then this person could tell their friends and families about the horrifying experience, thus spreading this fear.
This same thing can be applied to dreams. Of course, there can be times where prophets and citizens are warned through these visions by the Lord. But there can also be "nightmares", which are just there to terrorize you, maybe because you watched a scary movie, have an intense phobia (like scrupulosity) or had a terrifying encounter. Those would not come from the Lord, but from your mental mind, the brain, getting events from your memory and thinking about them while you sleep.
And as is the case with many mental illnesses, like Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, people can have intrusive thoughts, which are horrible ideas that they would never do, come into their mind and terrorize them.
Joel 2:28
“And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh; your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, and your young men shall see visions.
Ecclesiastes 5:7
For when dreams increase and words grow many, there is vanity; but God is the one you must fear. [fear here meaning respect, reverence] [dreams and words meaning those which are not useful]
Dreams and NDE are like, the Internet, for spirits. Anyone can post whatever they want on the Internet, whether or not it's true. Good spirits can post the truth, and bad spirits can post lies. You can get a call on your phone from a friend, wishing you good tidings, or from a scam caller, trying to steal your credit card information.
An NDE is essentially a thought you have before death, just more intense because you're in the process of dying.
A dream is essentially a thought you have while you're not awake, just more intense because you're in the process of losing consciousness.
And what are thoughts? Just ideas in your head. Anyone can come up with an idea, regardless of it's good or bad. That is why, the Bible tells us to not lean on our own flawed understanding, on our own heart which has been hurt and injured by sin, but instead, rest on His Holy Words, the scripture, for advice.
Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding.
1 Timothy 4:7
Have nothing to do with irreverent, silly myths. [silly myths meaning ECT from Greek mythology] Rather train yourself for godliness;
God bless.
It will be good for us to discuss more. Have a good day at work.
Thank you, Jesus'Truth. Work is finally over
The scriptures tell us that God made the ages.
The word is aion in the Greek. There are many translations which translate the word as "world" or "forever" but the literal translation is age. or eon.
Hebrews 1
1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2 [a]in these last days has spoken to us [b]in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom He also made the [c]world.
This is the New American Standard Bible translation but in the margin of the NASB it has "literally ages"
God created vast indefinite periods of time called the ages or eons.
God is called the King of the Ages literally in 1 Timothy 17.
This is how the NASB has translated the passage:
"Now to the King *eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God be glory and honor forever and ever.
In the margins of the NASB, it has *eternal=literally of the ages and *forever and ever= literally to the ages of the ages.
Ages are indefinite periods of time which have a beginning and an end.
Here are some scriptures which speak of the ages.
1 Corinthians 2:7 before the ages
1 Corin. 10:11 ends of the ages
More:
Matthew 12:32 this age or in the age to come
Matthew 13:22 worry of the age
Mattthew 18:39 end of the age
Matthew 28:20 even to the end of the age
Mark 10:30 present age
Luke 16:8 sons of this age
Romans 2:5 unto the ages
1 Cor. 2:8 rulers of this age
2 Cor. 4;4 god of this age
Ephesians 2:7 the ages to come
Philippians 4:20 to the ages to the ages
Galatians 1:4 wicked age
2 Timothy 4:10 in love with this present age
Hebrews 6:5 powers of the age to come
1 John 2:17 abides for the age
There are many more references in the scriptures.
It is believed that there is impending eon or age, the one that comes after the one that we are currently living in. This is referred to as the Messianic Age, the Millennial Age or the Kingdom Age and there is at least one more after that age.
The adjective of aion is aionios and the adjective for eon is eonian.
The adjective means of, pertaining to, during, or relating to an age, but in most translations is translated as "eternal" or "forever".
The phrase in the scriptures "to the ages of the ages" or "for the ages of the ages" is another thing to research and find out about.
This is why it is important to have literal translations in addition to other translations when studying the scriptures.
God has a purpose for the ages and this is central to the belief in the belief in the eventual restoration of all to God. Many will have salvation during the ages and many will not. Many will experience loss, separation, exclusion, punishment, correction, the second death. At the end of the ages, when all have been subjected to God, God will be all in all. 1 Cor. 15. This is God's plan, to reunite all things in Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 1
7 In [g]Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He [h]lavished on [i]us. In all wisdom and insight 9 He [j]made known to us the mystery of His **will, according to His [k]kind intention which He purposed in Him 10 with a view to an administration [l]suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the **summing up of all things in Christ, things [m]in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him 11 [n]also we [o]have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, 12 to the end that we who were the first to hope in [p]Christ would be to the praise of His glory
**Will-Thelema=resolve, the will of God which must be done, what one wishes or has determined what shall be done (Greek Hebrew Word Study and Strongs)
**Summing up = anakephalaioomai-to gather together again in one, to reunite in or under one head
**Counsel- Boule-will, intention, decree, decision, plan
Jesus has been made heir of all as Hebrews 1 tells us. This means that satan does not get to keep anyone. No one lost forever in an eternal hell or eternal death. All subjected to Him means that all will be in obedience to Him. All will yield to Him in the end. He will reign in all hearts. I believe that this passage of scripture speaks to this too:
Psalm 68:18, NASB: You have ascended on high, You have led captive Your captives; You have received gifts among people, Even among the rebellious as well, that the LORD God may dwell there.
God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 01-21-2023 at 09:40 PM..
The phrase, for the age of the ages or for the ages of the ages, translated as "forever and ever" in many translations can be understood when we look at similar constructs. For example, Song of Solomon 1:1, "song of songs;" Gen 9:25, "servant of servants;" Ex. 26:33, "holy of the holies;" Deut. 10:17, "God of gods and Lord of lords;" Dan. 8:25, "prince of princes;" Phil. 3:5, "Hebrew of Hebrews;" 1 Tim. 6:15, "King of kings and Lord of lords."
It refers to the greatest of all of the ages.
Notes on the word aion and the adjective aionios/aionian. Tere are many studies on this:
We must remember that while God's words are inspired and refined as though put through a crucible seven times, men's translations of those words are not inspired. But with translations such as the Concordant Version, Rotherham's Emphasized Version, the American Standard Version (with marginal notes) and others, and by using such aids as lexicons and concordances of the Hebrew and Greek, we will be able to regain the truth concerning the eons, or ages, spoken of in the Scriptures.
To continue with the Scriptures used to refute universal salvation, let us look at John 3:36: "He that believeth in the Son hath everlasting life; and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him." There was a time when all of us were unbelievers and were without a knowledge of Christ, but when we became believers, and came to be in Christ, we received life. Can we say this Scripture teaches that those who die in their sins will never see life, or will never be resurrected? Revelation 20:15 says they will, as do John 5:25-30; Acts 24:15, 21; 26:8 and the fifteenth chapter of 1 Corinthians. John 3:36 is speaking of not seeing "eonian life," or "life of the ages," not "eternal life."
The Emphasized Bible (Rotherham) translates the verse, "He that believes on the Son hath life age-abiding; whereas he that yieldeth not unto the Son shall not see life, but the anger of God awaiteth him."
The Emphatic Diaglott (Wilson): "He believing into the Son has aionian life; but he disobeying the Son shall not see life, but the anger of God abides on him."
Young's Literal Translation: "He who is believing in the Son hath life age-during; and he who is not believing the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God doth remain on him."
Concordant Version: "He who is believing into the Son has eonian life, yet he who is stubborn as to the Son, shall not be seeing life, but the indignation of God is remaining on him."
The Greek word menei, a 3 person singular, present active indicative form from meno, means "remaining," or "abiding," and has no meaning of endlessness. Should it have meant so, then our Lord would still be abiding wherever He was when those came to question him, as recorded in John 1:38, for the same word is found in that verse, and was translated "dwellest" in the KJV.
That the Scriptures declare an end to God's anger should dispel the notion that God's wrath will abide upon a mass of people "forever and ever." Psa. 103:9 says: "He will not always chide, neither will he keep His anger forever." His anger is "age-abiding," "age-during," or "eonian," not "forever." Even leaving the incorrect "forever" in this text proves an end to God's wrath.
Believers in Christ have eonian life, life through the ages. The ones not believing will not see that life, but will be raised, judged and sent into death a second time. The second death of Rev. 20:14 and 21:8 is not endless, for Paul tells us in 1 Cor. 15:26 that death will be destroyed. "Therefore, we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, Who is the Savior of ALL mankind, specially of those who believe." (1 Tim. 4:10) God is the Savior of ALL, but in this eon He is offering a special salvation, that of life throughout the eons, to those who believe. At the end of the eons, the remainder of mankind will also be made alive in Christ. Louis Abbott, Biblical Scholar
God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 01-21-2023 at 10:14 PM..
The judgement is a part of the process of the reconciliation of all to God.
False teaching, Christs death reconciled those He died for to God Rom 5:10
Isaiah 26:9
With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.
15 [w]He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For [x]by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17 He [y]is before all things, and in Him all things [z]hold together. 18 He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything. 19 For [aa]it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the [ab]fullness to dwell in Him, 20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in [ac]heaven.
God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 01-21-2023 at 09:58 PM..
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