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In the Southern Baptist Journal Of Theology, on pages 15 & 18, Timothy K. Beougher writes....
Quote:
How do we know that God is love? Through the person of Jesus Christ. No one knows more about God's love than Jesus Christ...... The One who embodied God's love spent more time talking about the horrors of hell than the glories of heaven. Hell is real, and hell is eternal. We have Jesus Christ word on that.
And on page 18 Dr. T. K. Beougher writes....
Quote:
Jesus Christ talked more about hell than he did about heaven.
Multiple Choice Test
A. Jesus Christ spoke much more about hell than heaven.
Yes_____________________________________________
No______________________________________________
B. Jesus Christ spoke somewhat more about hell than heaven.
The Apostle Paul, author of at least 13 Epistles & recipient of an experience of glory from the heavenlies of our God, wrote much more of hell than heaven.
Yup He sure did, the pastor told me so. Let us look at the bible shall we?
Although this is an illustration to demonstrate the error of this teaching, hell was not taught/referenced to more than kingdom of heaven/God
Mouse over references to see text (If you click this link you can see all the texts by mousing over them, this forum does not support mouse-over.)
References to "hell" in the gospels (e-Sword word search on hell NKJV)
Matthew 5:22; Matthew 5:29; Matthew 5:30; Matthew 10:28; Matthew 11:23; Matthew 16:18; Matthew 18:9; Matthew 23:15; Matthew 23:33; Mark 9:43; Mark 9:45; Mark 9:47; Luke 10:15; Luke 12:5; Luke 16:23;
References to Kingdom of in gospels (e-Sword search on "kingdom of" NKJV)
Matthew 3:2; Matthew 4:17; Matthew 5:3; Matthew 5:10; Matthew 5:19; Matthew 5:20; Matthew 6:33; Matthew 7:21; Matthew 8:11; Matthew 10:7; Matthew 11:11; Matthew 11:12; Matthew 12:28; Matthew 13:11; Matthew 13:24; Matthew 13:31; Matthew 13:33; Matthew 13:43; Matthew 13:44; Matthew 13:45; Matthew 13:47; Matthew 13:52; Matthew 16:19; Matthew 18:1; Matthew 18:3; Matthew 18:4; Matthew 18:23; Matthew 19:12; Matthew 19:14; Matthew 19:23; Matthew 19:24; Matthew 20:1; Matthew 21:31; Matthew 21:43; Matthew 22:2; Matthew 23:13; Matthew 25:1; Mark 1:14; Mark 1:15; Mark 4:11; Mark 4:26; Mark 4:30; Mark 9:1; Mark 10:14; Mark 10:15; Mark 10:23; Mark 10:24; Mark 10:25; Mark 11:10; Mark 12:34; Mark 14:25; Luke 4:43; Luke 6:20; Luke 7:28; Luke 8:1; Luke 8:10; Luke 9:2; Luke 9:11; Luke 9:27; Luke 9:60; Luke 9:62; Luke 10:9; Luke 10:11; Luke 11:20; Luke 12:31; Luke 13:18; Luke 13:20; Luke 13:28; Luke 13:29; Luke 14:15; Luke 16:16; Luke 17:20; Luke 17:21; Luke 18:16; Luke 18:17; Luke 18:24; Luke 18:25; Luke 18:29; Luke 19:11; Luke 21:31; Luke 22:16; Luke 22:18; Luke 23:51; John 3:3; John 3:5
References to heaven in the gospels, particularly by Jesus (e-Sword search on "heaven" excluding "kingdom of" NKJV)
Matthew 5:12; Matthew 5:16; Matthew 5:34; Matthew 5:48; Matthew 6:1; Matthew 6:9; Matthew 6:20; Matthew 7:11; Matthew 10:32-33; Matthew 18:18; Matthew 19:21; Matthew 23:9; Matthew 24:35; Matthew 28:18; Mark 10:21; Mark 11:25-26; Mark 12:25; Mark 13:31; Luke 6:23; Luke 10:20; Luke 12:33; Luke 15:7; Luke 15:21; Luke 18:22; Luke 21:11; John 6:31; John 6:32
Well from that, Jesus was obviously more focused on Kingdom and heaven rather than hell. Let's see what the Apostles had to say:
Hell
James 3:6; Revelation 1:18; Revelation 6:8; Revelation 20:13; Revelation 20:14
Hmm, strangely few verses.
Heaven? (esp. references to Heaven as where God is)
So what do you think, was Jesus Kingdom orientated or Hell orientated?
I have not done money yet but it sure would bring up the same results.
Blessings
1-I don't think searching for one word will convince me of your stance. This is getting a bit tired. How many verses before and after those references are the 'teaching'. A verse count on instances of one word seems almost (purposely) deceitful. I say the entire teaching on the parable of the sheep and goats is a teaching on Heaven and Hell. I say any number of lengthy parable teachings are on hell and eternal separation form God. (Many are on the Kingdom of God as well.) But the amount Jesus taught on any one subject is rather irrelevant to me. Any teaching Jesus gave is important-- Whether it's one or 100.
2.-The fact that you constantly reference you own material is yet another red flag. Seems as though we might have someone with a private revelation(your word) and I think my bible says something about that as well. (Isn't in I Peter?)
I say the entire teaching on the parable of the sheep and goats is a teaching on Heaven and Hell.
Then perhaps you can tell us why the Master is speaking of two clean animals, rather than sheep and swine or sheep and dogs? And, can you tell us the qualifications, according to the Lord Jesus Christ, for being a sheep and a goat according to the context of St. Matthew 25? How do those qualifications match your teaching? And, what does kolasis punishment mean? Is Dr. Strong correct in listing kolasis as meaning correction, followed by punishment and penalty? And, is kolasis rooted in kolazo? And what does kolazo mean....yep, you are correct: kolazo means pruning and trimming!
The Lost Sheep & The Lost Coin
HERE (http://www.csec.org/csec/sermon/capon_4012.htm - broken link)
1-I don't think searching for one word will convince me of your stance. This is getting a bit tired. How many verses before and after those references are the 'teaching'. A verse count on instances of one word seems almost (purposely) deceitful. I say the entire teaching on the parable of the sheep and goats is a teaching on Heaven and Hell. I say any number of lengthy parable teachings are on hell and eternal separation form God. (Many are on the Kingdom of God as well.) But the amount Jesus taught on any one subject is rather irrelevant to me. Any teaching Jesus gave is important-- Whether it's one or 100.
2.-The fact that you constantly reference you own material is yet another red flag. Seems as though we might have someone with a private revelation(your word) and I think my bible says something about that as well. (Isn't in I Peter?)
Well this is a red flag to folk that see hell as the big topic when it was not.
And why may I not reference my own material? What constitutes a scholar?
This is nothing more than an ad hominem attack to discredit a poster. How about putting your knowledge aka revelation where your attacks are (a rephrase)
And what has private interpretation to do with the price of eggs? You anyway take that out of context. Oh I forgot. God stopped talking after the Canon was put together. Ironic as all I referenced was a study I did and all it references is scripture. Can I reference Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, Star Wars, Star Trek?
You do not like the message, so shoot the messenger.
Now I am waiting to hear the lengthy parables on hell that Jesus spoke of, please present them - we are all ears.
As for sheep and goats, birdy has answered that part.
BTW who are the "I know you nots" in the parables?
Jesus preached on hell more than anything. ...that and money.
looks like a warning to me not to be taken lightly...
Another example of churchology. So many people accept what their church says without ever researching it,or they hear a rich televangilist say it..so it`s must be true. Be careful of following the masses. `come out of her my people`
Location: Comunistafornia, and working to get out ASAP!
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Reputation: 952
Of course separation from God, but Jesus likens it to fire, punishment, eternal suffering, anguish, torments, frightening! The truth is in Jesus who are we going to believe Jesus or scholars and Bible twisters? Because all they do is attempt to lessen the doctrine of eternal punishment and hell. What's next? I mean pretty soon everything Christianity will be a joke, false, or a misrepresentation.
The words of Jesus should awaken many in these twisted days:
"...Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?" (Luke 18:8)
Of course separation from God, but Jesus likens it to fire, punishment, eternal suffering, anguish, torments, frightening! The truth is in Jesus who are we going to believe Jesus or scholars and Bible twisters? Because all they do is attempt to lessen the doctrine of eternal punishment and hell. What's next? I mean pretty soon everything Christianity will be a joke, false, or a misrepresentation.
The words of Jesus should awaken many in these twisted days:
"...Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?" (Luke 18:8)
Good scrip and I agree. Yet whose faith? Ours? Or the Gift of Faith of Jesus?
Why are the CU's seen as twisters? This is a common fallacy. In fact, digging into the origins and church history reveals quite the opposite of what is presupposed that hell is.
I do not need more than a KJV and a Strong's to disprove the hell, torments and teeth gnashers was aimed at the religious elect of the day.
No, Christianity is already a joke and is already a misrepresentation IMHO.
Believe me when I say that I too desire all enter into a relationship while in this age yet it is not going to happen while an us and them mentality exists.
Jesus' gospel was inclusive not exclusive. The Jews had one of exclusivity, and where did we find Jesus? With the rejected folk, that was His stomping ground. Jesus opposed the exclusivity. Read Matt 23 and see if you cannot assimilate that today with the majority of churches?
"God is Love but..." has been the message for far too long. Love and terror are not bedfellows, they are opposites. What people reject is not Christ but rather whom Christians represent.
Coming from SA I know exactly what Gandhi meant that he accepts Christ but not the one Christians espouse. If you did not know, SA, that is where Gandhi had his negative run-in with the church. Well in the same time in history, had he been in the bible-belt of the USA, likely he would have has the exact same condemnation based upon his race. Nope you folk are not squeaky clean either, you have Martin Luther King as your example. We all have a long ways to go before brotherly love becomes a reality.
While your friends, family and colleagues (who did not repent before death) are suffering the torments of hell forever you will be:
A. Not worrying about it
B. Happy it is not you
C. Happy that God's justice is being carried out
D. At God's feet, forever begging that He will give them another chance to make the right choice
E. None of the above, because God's judgments are always corrective and everyone will ultimately kneel and confess Jesus is Lord to the glory of God (yes, even that bratty cousin of yours)
Bonus Question
Why wasn't eternal torment spoken of to Adam or in the entire OT?
(We have 2 references used: Daniel's everlasting <arguably 'age-lasting'> shame and contempt and dead sinners in Isaiah 64. All other OT 'hell' references are 'Sheol' AKA 'the grave").
A. Because the wages of sin is death (not eternal torment) and the dust returns to the earth and the Spirit returns to God.
B. Because God is God and doesn't have to reveal the full penalty of disobeying Him until He feels like it.
Final Question
If you believe in free will and eternal torment, why are you sitting here discussing doctrine online instead of out trying to prevent this horrible future for those dying all around you (the hospitals would be a good start).
A. I'm too busy
B. I don't love people that much
C. I say I believe it, but in my heart of hearts I know it's not really true, so I don't act on it.
blessings,
Byron
PS - Calvinists need not reply to the Final Question
Then perhaps you can tell us why the Master is speaking of two clean animals, rather than sheep and swine or sheep and dogs? And, can you tell us the qualifications, according to the Lord Jesus Christ, for being a sheep and a goat according to the context of St. Matthew 25? How do those qualifications match your teaching?
I also believe it its teaching about heaven and hell. I believe Jesus used sheep and goats to picture the division between believers and unbelievers. Sheep and goats often grazed together but were separated when it came time to shear the sheep. Ezekiel 34:17-24 also refers to the separation of sheep and goats.
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my bible says something about that as well. (Isn't in I Peter?)
Can I reference Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, Star Wars, Star Trek?
