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Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world."John 18:36
[I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You. For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me. I pray for them. I do not pray for the world..." John 17:6-9
Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. But now I come to You, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have My joy fulfilled in themselves. "I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth." John 17:11-18
"He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins." Colossians 1:13
"Friendship with the world is enmity to God." James 4:4
"But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus." Ephesians 2:4-7
"For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body Philippians 3:20
When Christ came down to earth, I think his sacrafice signified the inclusion of "all powers and authorities" to be under the authority of his heavenly kingdom. I don't think this means that the "Kingdom of Heaven" is here right now - seeing as how as the Lord put it himself - his kingdom is "not of this world." What it does mean is that the world and its powers are subject to the rule of God(Christ).
Check out the site above. I think it gives an accurate description of what the Lord truly was saying.
[quote=cg81;2462255]I also believe in the literal second coming of Christ, when every eye shall see Him coming in the clouds. But that will be the end of the world... we will all be judged and go to our reward. I do not believe in a literal reign of Christ on earth to come...that runs contrary to Jesus' teaching and example, and every time His disciples or the people referred to a literal kingdom, He refuted this. OT prophecy pointed to the Messiah, who would come establish His spiritual kingdom (which we enter by being born-again). Believers are living and reigning with Christ now.[/quote
T prophecy pointed to the Messiah, who would come establish His spiritual kingdom (which we enter by being born-again). Believers are living and reigning with Christ now.[/quote
then what is the point of the 1000 reign if people are already are ruling with him?
then what is the point of the 1000 reign if people are already are ruling with him?
Exactly. I do not believe there will be a literal 1000 year reign. The 1000 year reign (1000 being figurative) is now. You can check out this thread https://www.city-data.com/forum/chris...eady-here.html for further discussion on this topic, altho really, these threads do tie together.
When Christ came down to earth, I think his sacrafice signified the inclusion of "all powers and authorities" to be under the authority of his heavenly kingdom. I don't think this means that the "Kingdom of Heaven" is here right now - seeing as how as the Lord put it himself - his kingdom is "not of this world." What it does mean is that the world and its powers are subject to the rule of God(Christ).
Check out the site above. I think it gives an accurate description of what the Lord truly was saying.
Can you find any verse referring to the "kingdom of Heaven" that does not refer to the current spiritual reign of believers with Christ?
Can you find any verse referring to the "kingdom of Heaven" that does not refer to the current spiritual reign of believers with Christ?
"...the whole world is under the sway of the evil one."1 John 5:19
"Do not be discouraged because of this vast army. For the battle is not yours, but God’s."
2 Chronicles 20:15
"Andthey overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony...." Revelation 12:11
"For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ, and being ready to punish all disobedience when your obedience is fulfilled." 2 Corinthians 10:2-6
"...after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves. Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears." Acts 20:29-31
"Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. But you be watchful in all things..." 2 Timothy 4:2-5
"And the Lord will deliver me from every evil work and preserve me for His heavenly kingdom. To Him be glory forever and ever!" 2 Timothy 4:18
Again I just think that the Kingdom of God itself is once again signifying Christ's total authority over all of the powers and authorities that are currently in this world in this evil age we live in. They are all subject to him.
I think 2 Timothy 4:18 really signifies the difference between the Heavenly Kingdom and the worldly kingdom best.
A good analogy might be the way in which the US has their government setup right now. We have a Federal Government, and state governments. All of the state governments are subject and under the autority of the Federal Government - as the Federal Government is considered to have sovereignty in authority over that of the States. Hope this answers your questions.
Last edited by simpleton; 01-09-2008 at 09:43 AM..
Exactly. I do not believe there will be a literal 1000 year reign. The 1000 year reign (1000 being figurative) is now. You can check out this thread https://www.city-data.com/forum/chris...eady-here.html for further discussion on this topic, altho really, these threads do tie together.
but how can this be because when you read revelation the Author seems to put it after the second coming in Revelation
4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
"...the whole world is under the sway of the evil one." 1 John 5:19
"Do not be discouraged because of this vast army. For the battle is not yours, but God’s." 2 Chronicles 20:15
"Andthey overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony...." Revelation 12:11
"For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ, and being ready to punish all disobedience when your obedience is fulfilled." 2 Corinthians 10:2-6
"...after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves. Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears." Acts 20:29-31
"Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. But you be watchful in all things..." 2 Timothy 4:2-5
"And the Lord will deliver me from every evil work and preserve me for His heavenly kingdom. To Him be glory forever and ever!" 2 Timothy 4:18
I'm a little confused by your choices of verses here. The only verse referring to a literal battle is the one in 2 Chronicles where the children of Israel under Jehosaphat defeated the children of Ammon and Moab. As the verse in 2 Corinthians states, "the weapons of our warfare are not carnal" - they are not fleshly, but spiritual.
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Again I just think that the Kingdom of God itself is once again signifying Christ's total authority over all of the powers and authorities that are currently in this world in this evil age we live in. They are all subject to him.
I think 2 Timothy 4:18 really signifies the difference between the Heavenly Kingdom and the worldly kingdom best.
What do you think the Heavenly Kingdom is? How are the authorities and powers in the world subject to Christ? I agree that the powers that be are ordained of God, yet I do not believe that they are subject to Him.
4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Exactly. I do not believe there will be a literal 1000 year reign. The 1000 year reign (1000 being figurative) is now. You can check out this thread https://www.city-data.com/forum/chris...eady-here.html for further discussion on this topic, altho really, these threads do tie together.
Mat 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
I think we are indeed under the 1000 year reign right now and I think the eternal Kingdom of Christ will be revealed after the great tribulation has taken place and after the throne of judgement has been handed down. This is something I'll have to study up on though. Thanks for the thread.
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