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Here's something to consider. What became of all those millions of folks over the eons who existed before Abraham or even during Abraham's time until Jesus came along that weren't Jewish and therefore according to some scriptural interpretations had no hope of salvation? Add to this all of the folks since Jesus that even to this day worship celestial bodies, nature or nothing at all and are oblivious to anything else due their location or culture.
Here's something to consider. What became of all those millions of folks over the eons who existed before Abraham or even during Abraham's time until Jesus came along that weren't Jewish and therefore according to some scriptural interpretations had no hope of salvation? Add to this all of the folks since Jesus that even to this day worship celestial bodies, nature or nothing at all and are oblivious to anything else due their location or culture.
Hi, it's true that many believe that these people will be lost forever, but many believe that God will seek all until He "finds" them. I believe that He has the will, the ability, the means, and all the time to do it. God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 11-30-2007 at 02:41 PM..
Here's something to consider. What became of all those millions of folks over the eons who existed before Abraham or even during Abraham's time until Jesus came along that weren't Jewish and therefore according to some scriptural interpretations had no hope of salvation? Add to this all of the folks since Jesus that even to this day worship celestial bodies, nature or nothing at all and are oblivious to anything else due their location or culture.
I started asking that question when I was about 5 years old (not as eloquently as you have put it here).
I got a lot of vague answers but none ever made any sense.
It was the first of many questions like that.
I started asking that question when I was about 5 years old (not as eloquently as you have put it here).
I also asked that question when I was young. But since I saw, and still see, God as a loving, just God, I was satisfied with the answer that He will also be a loving, just Judge.
I was always under the impression that prior to Jesus' sacrifice, people were judged based on works.
When Jesus is telling the story of the Rich Man and Lazarus, he mentions that the rich man went to hell after he died, but Lazarus went to "Abraham's bosom" (according to the KJV). The NIV refers to it as "Abraham's side". There was clearly a difference between the destinations of the good and the evil.
I don't have much more of an explanation thant that, but people were apparently being judged in some manner at that time.
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Originally Posted by maui4me
Here's something to consider. What became of all those millions of folks over the eons who existed before Abraham or even during Abraham's time until Jesus came along that weren't Jewish and therefore according to some scriptural interpretations had no hope of salvation? Add to this all of the folks since Jesus that even to this day worship celestial bodies, nature or nothing at all and are oblivious to anything else due their location or culture.
Very simple. All those that walked righteous from Adam until Jesus would have been drawn by God (i.e. righteous David) and had their chance when Jesus preached to the captives.
"Wherefore he saith, When he ascended on high, he led captivity captive, And gave gifts unto men. (Now this, He ascended, what is it but that he also descended into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.) (Ephesians 4:8-10)
And again, "Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God; being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; in which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison, that aforetime were disobedient, when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water" (1 Peter 3:18-20)
All those after our Lord Jesus need to come to Him for eternal salvation.
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life: no one cometh unto the Father, but by me." (John 14:6)
"For by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not of works, that no man should glory." (Ephesians 2:8,9)
"Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even in him doth this man stand here before you whole. He is the stone which was set at nought of you the builders, which was made the head of the corner. And in none other is there salvation: for neither is there any other name under heaven, that is given among men, wherein we must be saved." (Acts 4:11-13)
God and His word are clear--no Jesus no salvation.
Marks: here's the kicker: Romans 3:10, There is none righteous, no not one. If one wasn't into animal sacrifice and only to the god of the Jews, which seemed to be the only accepted way in both the antideluvian and post-flood world up until the time of Jesus, then you were lost. Add to that, the concept of heaven or hell was something the Jews seemed to aborb from the greeks as these were concepts unknown to the Jews until some time after their captivity with the Persians. If you weren't a temple sacrificing Jew, you were lost period.
The Jews thought that worship of Jesus as God was more than idolatry due to the concept of God is a spirit and Jesus was a flesh and blood human being as many pseudo-messiahs that came before him not only in Judaism but other near-eastern religions of the time. This concept of Jesus is God and all worship centered on him is something that I can't accept and most if not all of my Christian brethren prefer not to discuss as they don't have answers. They prefer to say that it's another one of those great 'mysteries' that they don't want to think about very hard. I welcome discussion.
If you weren't a temple sacrificing Jew, you were lost period.
Well, I only find it logical that people made live sacrifices to a god. I know that many people deny this, but we picture gods exactly like humans (except bigger; in the sense of godlike) simply because we are human.
It is only natural to give natural events like day & night, live & death, lightning & rain human characteristics and call them gods. So the natural conclusion that gods, like all humans need to eat, be that live (animal) sacrifices in a temple or worship through prayer (in private or in public places) is only reasonable.
Only with the invention of vegetarianism could humanity switch from live sacrifices to fruit and ultimately to worship through prayer. So the switch from a true god to an abstract (spirit) god is just natural progression. And this progression is reflected in humanities progression; first the gods (our religion) were seen as real (material) and now our science is abstract.
Except to this day some religions keep insisting that their God(s) can only be real.
Last edited by Tricky D; 11-30-2007 at 11:15 PM..
Reason: spelling
Very simple. All those that walked righteous from Adam until Jesus would have been drawn by God (i.e. righteous David) and had their chance when Jesus preached to the captives.
"Wherefore he saith, When he ascended on high, he led captivity captive, And gave gifts unto men. (Now this, He ascended, what is it but that he also descended into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.) (Ephesians 4:8-10)
I believe that this passage also refers to the eventual salvation or restoration of all and that there is hope for those who have never heard the name of Jesus in this life. Some passages read, "in order that He would or should fill all things" and Ephesians 1:10 speaks of the summing up, heading up, reuniting of all things in Christ. I believe that the lost are captives to sin and satan, but Jesus came to destroy the works of satan according to Christian scriptures. If those who have never heard the name of Jesus are lost forever, the works of satan will not have been destroyed. Another passage in 1 Peter refers to this too, I believe. 1 Peter 4:5-6 says "but they shall give account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. For the gospel has for this purpose been preached even to those who are dead, that though they are judged in the flesh as men, they may live in the spirit according to the will of God." (NASB) God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 12-01-2007 at 10:42 AM..
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Then again, I don't believe in an afterlife.
" (1 Peter 3:18-20)
