Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-07-2014, 12:42 PM
 
Location: Florida -
10,213 posts, read 14,834,115 times
Reputation: 21848

Advertisements

Most agree that the book of Hosea is largely allegorical and that Hosea represents God, while Gomer represents unfaithful Israel. However, all of scripture is somewhat of a parable, with applicability to all times and generations. In the latter context, whom do you believe Gomer's three children represent:
Jezreal ['God Sows']; Lo-ruhamah [unloved or pity/pitied'] and Lo-ammi ['Not my people']??
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-07-2014, 01:04 PM
 
1,311 posts, read 1,528,808 times
Reputation: 319
I've always been told they are symbolic of different aspects of God's relationship with Israel. It can be difficult to find application to life today, but I think it's there. It speaks to those who have known Him and strayed. You may have strayed so far from Him you no longer hear Him, and He no longer listens to you or for you. However, He is still there, his love and faithfulness ready for you to come back to Him.

Last edited by Cephas40; 01-07-2014 at 01:17 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-08-2014, 10:10 AM
 
Location: Clanton, AL
668 posts, read 690,721 times
Reputation: 81
What a timely topic. The bible study I follow has been going through the book of Hosea.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-08-2014, 02:28 PM
 
Location: Florida -
10,213 posts, read 14,834,115 times
Reputation: 21848
Quote:
Originally Posted by pastorALly View Post
I've always been told they are symbolic of different aspects of God's relationship with Israel. It can be difficult to find application to life today, but I think it's there. It speaks to those who have known Him and strayed. You may have strayed so far from Him you no longer hear Him, and He no longer listens to you or for you. However, He is still there, his love and faithfulness ready for you to come back to Him.
Thanks, that helps! I also believe it is there, but, it is a difficult question that has not been frequently addressed.

I also believe that it is possible to so harden one's heart to God, that one is simply no longer able (or willing) to hear the voice of God. Having also ministered in nursing homes, it's difficult to see folks in their last days on earth ... still staunchly resisting God. By the same token, I've had the privilege of leading an 86-year old woman and a 90-year old man to Christ!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-08-2014, 05:01 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,230 posts, read 26,447,455 times
Reputation: 16370
Quote:
Originally Posted by jghorton View Post
Most agree that the book of Hosea is largely allegorical and that Hosea represents God, while Gomer represents unfaithful Israel. However, all of scripture is somewhat of a parable, with applicability to all times and generations. In the latter context, whom do you believe Gomer's three children represent:
Jezreal ['God Sows']; Lo-ruhamah [unloved or pity/pitied'] and Lo-ammi ['Not my people']??
Hosea did as God commanded and married a harlot named Gomer who represented unfaithful Israel. From what I found (I only did a little research however), the names of their three children do have meanings related to Israel's unfaithful relationship with God.

Regarding the name of the first child:

Jezreel - 'God will sow'. Hosea 1:4 And the LORD said to him, "Name him Jezreel; for yet a little while, and I will punish the house of Jehu for the bloodshed of Jezreel, and I will put an end to the kingdom of the house of Israel.
Bible Dictionary

Jezreel definition

God scatters. (1.) A town of Issachar (Josh. 19:18), where the kings of Israel often resided (1 Kings 18:45; 21:1; 2 Kings 9:30). Here Elijah met Ahab, Jehu, and Bidkar; and here Jehu executed his dreadful commission against the house of Ahab (2 Kings 9:14-37; 10:1-11). It has been identified with the modern Zerin, on the most western point of the range of Gilboa, reaching down into the great and fertile valley of Jezreel, to which it gave its name. (2.) A town in Judah (Josh. 15:56), to the south-east of Hebron. Ahinoam, one of David's wives, probably belonged to this place (1 Sam. 27:3). (3.) A symbolical name given by Hosea to his oldest son (Hos. 1:4), in token of a great slaughter predicted by him, like that which had formerly taken place in the plain of Esdraelon (comp. Hos. 1:4, 5).
Jezreel | Define Jezreel at Dictionary.com
So the first child being named Jezreel was related to God's judgment on the northern kingdom of Israel. The northern kingdom of Israel was carried off into captivity by the Assyrians in 722 B.C.

It is also interesting to note that Jezreel is another name for the plain of Esdraelon which will be one area where the Armageddon campaign takes place during the still futureTribulation.


The name of the second child, Lo-ruhamah means 'to have no pity', and is associated with God's judgment of Israel.

The name of the third child, Lo-ammi means 'not mine', and as God said, in Hosea 1:9 - And the LORD said, "Name him Lo-ammi, for you are not My people and I am not your God."


Hosea: The Story of the Unfailing Redemptive Love of God

What is the meaning of the Hosea’s children? | eTeacher's Biblical Hebrew Blog

I hope that helps.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-08-2014, 05:23 PM
 
Location: Clanton, AL
668 posts, read 690,721 times
Reputation: 81
Here is a snippet from a bible study program:

Quote:
Hosea 1:2a

“The beginning of the word of the LORD by Hosea. And the LORD said to Hosea, Go, take unto thee a wife of whoredoms…” I know most people immediately think that God told him to go to some house of prostitution and find one of the girls and marry her. No, that’s not what it’s talking about. What He’s really telling Hosea, who is living in Judah is – Go up to the Ten Tribes of Israel, because whoredom was their spiritual state already. They were steeped in idolatry! Hosea probably couldn’t have found a believing Jewish girl up in Israel. They were all steeped in idolatry. So, that’s the admonition. Not to go to a house of ill repute, but go up to Israel and find a woman or a girl that you can take to wife.

All right, so let’s set that to rest that all through the Book of Hosea the adultery that we’re talking about is spiritual adultery. Never forget that. And how God hates it! Can you blame Him? Here He is - the One God of Creation. He’s the God of miracles. He’s the God of power. He’s the God of love, the God of mercy, and the God who provides, coming back especially now to the Nation of Israel. Then they run to pagan idols of wood and gold and silver and stone that have nothing of what the true God has! It’s just unbelievable.

Through the Bible with Les Feldick, Book 70
Any thoughts on Gomer being not a prostitute but from the tribes that had prostituted themselves?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-08-2014, 05:38 PM
 
1,311 posts, read 1,528,808 times
Reputation: 319
Quote:
Originally Posted by jghorton View Post
Thanks, that helps! I also believe it is there, but, it is a difficult question that has not been frequently addressed.

I also believe that it is possible to so harden one's heart to God, that one is simply no longer able (or willing) to hear the voice of God. Having also ministered in nursing homes, it's difficult to see folks in their last days on earth ... still staunchly resisting God. By the same token, I've had the privilege of leading an 86-year old woman and a 90-year old man to Christ!
Praise The LORD. When I was a young buck I went with a pastor to a couple of nursing homes. He warned me about the language I'd hear but nothing prepared me for the ways in which some cursed God so openly and earnestly.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-09-2014, 02:33 PM
 
Location: Florida -
10,213 posts, read 14,834,115 times
Reputation: 21848
Thanks PastorAlly, Mike555 and Fundamental. This is a difficult question for which an answer does not seem readily available. Perhaps I am attempting to read more into the names than is there. However, due to the clearly allegorical and metaphorical nature of the story of Hosea and Gomer, and since God named the children, and since Spiritual adultery is as much a problem today as it was then ... it seems like there should also be a modern day application related to the names.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-09-2014, 04:11 PM
 
Location: Clanton, AL
668 posts, read 690,721 times
Reputation: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by jghorton View Post
Thanks PastorAlly, Mike555 and Fundamental. This is a difficult question for which an answer does not seem readily available. Perhaps I am attempting to read more into the names than is there. However, due to the clearly allegorical and metaphorical nature of the story of Hosea and Gomer, and since God named the children, and since Spiritual adultery is as much a problem today as it was then ... it seems like there should also be a modern day application related to the names.
I think you bring up a logical discussion based on the text. I see no doubt there are meaning to their names given by God past the literal name itself. It seems that each represent a phase in God's dealing with Israel due to their rebellion.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2014, 03:15 PM
 
Location: SE Ohio
39 posts, read 45,777 times
Reputation: 21
Default Hosea's Understanding of His Writing

I would like to say I believe it always problematic to address a portion of text within a greater work without first understanding the clear intent of its Author. We might always speculate how we "feel" about a text or what we "think" the ramifications of a text to be...but the only one who gets to say for sure is the original author of that text...all else is speculation.

Having stated that, here is my attempt to consider what Hosea meant in His understanding of his children's names in light of the rest of His text as it unfolds based on His predicament...as follows (sorry for its length):

The text of Hosea is so strait forward it reads like a novel. Hosea's message is the central theme that all the Prophets hold in common. His text addresses the 10 Northern Tribes of Israel during the 8th century BC(E) when the leadership of the Northern Dynasty worshipped Baal (or Baalim--a plurality of gods) instead of the One True God.

It stands as one of the most beautiful love stories in the Scripture and clearly shows the everlasting patience, forgiveness and love of our Creator.

The names of Hosea's children give us a clear indicator of what to expect in the future for the 10 Northern tribes. The 10 Northern Tribes of Israel became a divided kingdom from the Southern Dynasty. The 10 Northern Tribes were identified by diverse names by the Prophets to include Israel, Joseph, Ephraim the "Mountains of Israel" or Samaria, to name a few. This area is known today as the West Bank of Israel, or the "disputed" or "occupied" territory" of Israel. The message of Hosea has MAJOR ramifications for today's audience.

Our first clue is Hosea's children would be the children of faithless, idolatrous practices or beliefs (aka "whoredom"). The second clue is the "first born" male (symbolic of headship or birthright or double-portion or SEED/lineage/Progeny) would signify that "God would spread or disperse the seed" of the seed/progeny of Hosea or the Northern 10 Tribes. The text then gives us another clue as to why the name "Jezreel" is significant...and it has to do with "Jehu" and his deeds at "Jezreel". So we have to stop and discover what Jehu did concerning Jezreel that caused God to remember the 10 Northern Tribes in such a way as to name the male child (seed) of Hosea in such a way. You can find Jehu's story in 2Kings 9 but may want to preface Jehu's story with the story of Ahab, Jezebel and Elijah in 1Kings 21.

1Kings 21 summary: property owned in Jezreel (located in the tribe of Issachar, the city of Ahab and Jezebel) was taken by Ahab and Jezebel, after murdering the owner in order to steal his property. Ahab and Jezebel were overtly wicked and worshipped the Baalim (with which Elijah would soon deal according to their faithless, idolatrous actions and beliefs). Due to Ahab's idolatry and wicked act of murder God commanded that both He, Ahab, and his wicked wife, Jezebel, would die horrible deaths and that his offspring to the throne, his male seed, would be cut off, or end. Ahab "humbled himself" and God relented the judgment upon Ahab until after his death...i.e. Ahab would not personally witness the slaughter of his own children.

2Kings 9 summary: Elijah and Ahab are gone and so the story continues with Elisha and Jehu (son of Jehoshaphat = "judgment of God"). Jehu was the king after Jehoram, son of Ahab and Jezebel. Jehu took the kingdom from Jehoram, commanded Jezebel to be thrown from a window where she died (bringing about the judgment upon Jezebel that God had pronounced) and he set out to kill all the lineage/seed of Ahab, which was accomplished the next day and amounted to 70 offspring of Ahab.
[The number 70 is interesting in scripture and is often equated with the totality of "nations" of the world. In this number we see that God is dealing with the pagan practices of all "nations" that are found in the worship of Baalim=plural gods]

All of this to say that the name of Hosea's first male child, Jezreel, the child of his progeny, would find themselves in idolatrous worship of the plural gods that was prevalent in Elijah and Elisha's ministry, and that judgment would (or will be) given to deal with the turning away from the One God to worship the pagan multi-god. It is hinted that this judgment would affect ALL nations of the Earth.

Hosea's girls’ names are clues as to what will happen with the future progeny of Hosea—ie. The Northern 10 Tribes. We now know that Hosea's seed/progeny would practice paganism, would be sown/dispersed among the "nations" of the Earth, and that his siblings, by way of the names of his sisters, would "not receive mercy" (the literal meaning of the Hebrew Lo-ruhamah), meaning that just as God's judgment upon Ahab and Jezebel was postponed or delayed it did, in fact, happen just as pronounced, and that Hosea's seed/progeny would be so scattered/dispersed and will have suffered such complete judgment that they would be known as "not My people" (the literal meaning of the Hebrew Lo-ammi) indicating that it will be forgotten they were at one time the very "People of God". Imagine that…merciless exile so complete that the “once people” of the One God would forget they were once the real “people of God”. The knowledge of who they are and where they came from is so erased from their minds they have forgotten who they are and cannot find the way of return!

If Hosea's text ended in chapter 1 it would be a dismal read. But we have clues early in chapter 2 that Jezreel, Lo-ruhamah, and Lo-ammi have a future with their Creator. In fact, this is what all the Prophets declare...this very same message. Some of the Prophets speak to the Southern Dynasty, often identified as "Judah" or "Jerusalem" and is symbolized by the returning rule of the lineage of David, and some of the Prophets speak concerning the Northern Dynasty...and a couple of the Prophets speak to both (ex. Ezekiel).

Chapter 2 states the seed/progeny of the 10 Northern Tribes (Hosea's children) will be lured in "the wilderness" with tender words from God, and the "Valley of Achor" will become as a fertile land of "Hope". What happened in the "Valley of Achor" and what does this have to do with the "springing up" or nurturing of "Hope" for Hosea's children lost in forgetfulness and merciless exile?

In Joshua chapter 7 we read the story of Achan and the downfall of the unified tribes as they are fighting with the pagan cultures in the Northern Territory of the land given to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. This is during the time of Joshua, who took over the burden of leadership from Moses. The 12 tribes of Jacob are unified and would not be divided until after the rein of King David, during his son Solomon's rule. The "Valley of Achor" was a bitter reminder of defeat and death that comes with pagan idolatrous worship.

The "Valley of Achor" mentioned here in Hosea is a way of reminding the unloved, dispersed, idolatrous children of the 10 Northern Tribes (Hosea's progeny) that the defeat brought about by pagan faith and practice is not permanent but upon recognition of our deficiency we might find "hope" of future remembrance and reconciliation.

We see this in chapter 2 of Hosea when his progeny will return and respond as when they were young/innocent. God says when this was...it was like when they first fell in love with Him during the first Exodus from Egypt. It was a time when the whole nation depended upon the One God for every necessity: food, water, protection, warmth, direction.

In the days of their "youth" they did not know the name of the "Baalim" (it was not 'in their mouth'). Baal means "Lord" or "Master"...so they are worshipping a multiplicity of lords/masters/gods that they did not know from their youth. In the time of restoration they will call the One God, Ishi, literally "my man" but a Hebrew idiom for "MY HUSBAND"!. WOW! The dispersed, unloved people that are "not God's people" will at some time in the future call God "MY HUSBAND" and God declares HE will "marry them" once again and forever and that they will be resown in the Land of God and that the children of "no mercy" will taken back in "loving kindness/grace" and the children identified as "not My people" will again be called "MY PEOPLE" and the "resown, loved, People of God" and will respond to their Creator as "MY ONE GOD".

Chapter 3 of Hosea says it will be a "long time" that the Northern Dynasty will be out of their land (West Bank of Israel, disputed territory) and they will have no rule or control over the land but that someday that will all change. They will seek reinstitution in their land, God will be "their One God" and they will desire unity with their brothers Judah, and want the Davidic Kingdom to rule over them.

Chapter 4 delineates all the bad that has come upon the Northern Dynasty because of their multiplicity of gods and their divestment from the "Teachings of God" ("Torah" is the Hebrew word used for the term "Teachings of Kindness" and are referred to specifically here as “Your God’s Torah”).

Chapter 5 of Hosea declares that Israel/Ephraim/Northern Dynasty have been brought into judgment because of their sin of idolatry and that Judah/Jerusalem/Southern Dynasty "falls with them", as they cannot stand alone without the strength of their 10 brothers. God declares He will depart from the Northern Dynasty, removing His presence from them, until they "beg and seek Him in loving-kindness/grace".

Chapter 6 contains the words of the Northern Dynasty as a repentant prayer in search of their God while in dispersion among the nations. God declares what He wants of them is "goodness, obedience and to quit desecrating the 'Covenant'".

Chapter 7 reiterates the charges against the Northern Dynasty. Ephraim will be among 'the people' and will be rotting away and their destruction is because they rebelled against their God and plotted "treason" against him by going after the "multiplicity of gods". God states that He, alone, is their Redeemer.

Chapter 8 states again that exile/dispersion is due to breaking God's "covenant" and not being faithful to His Teachings-of-Kindness (Torah) even though in exile they complain that they really are 'God's children' and they are committed to Him...but are baffled by the remaining exile and judgment of God. God states He keeps them in the exile because they court the pagan practices of the nations in which they live and His Teachings-of-Kindness are being treated as "something alien/foreign" (i.e. God's Torah-Teaching is being seen as something that doesn't belong to them).

Chapter 9 and 10 is a sad reminder that the Northern Dynasty will not be in their land given to them by covenant with their forefathers but God has rejected them because they will not listen and obey Him...thus they will wander in the exile among the "nations". They, Israel/Northern Dynasty will reap the fruits of pagan idolatry which they have sown. There is a hint that God will require the Northern dynasty to begin the process of repentance and restoration and that the Southern Dynasty would continue the work, but it would be the combined Whole House (all 12 tribes) of Jacob that will see the end of exile and the completed work of the full restoration of God (verses10-11).

Finally, in Chapter 11 of Hosea, we see a break in the judgment of God...we begin to see a warming of His Heart towards his children. God begins to remember the days of Israel's youth when "she" was a tender, loving child. Because God "remembers" Ephraim/Israel's youth He is moved to action on her behalf with tender compassion. God states when He calls those that are His they will hear and respond.

Chapters 12 and 13 calls on the Northern Dynasty to use His correct name, meaning to not misidentify Him with the false gods they have been honoring during their exile, to return to Him (quit honoring pagan multi-gods) do actions of good that are just/correct/right and trust in the One God alone. We are asked to remember the days of the first exodus from Egypt, when God was our sole Provider and in reality, whether we recognize it or not, He has been our ONLY HELP.

Chapter 14 has an amazing statement...God says that all we have to do is return to the One God, forsaking all others, and the only requirement is "instead of bulls we will pay our lips"! Sacrifice is not required for forgiveness...but a repentant heart that leads to sincere worship/prayer/honor to the One GOD. By this we will be healed, taken back in love, wrath and anger turned away, we may once again walk upon the "paths of the LORD". Stop and think of the ramifications of God’s declaration.

Now, how does Hosea's message of division, exile and full restoration agree with the rest of the Prophets? Let me challenge you to read the Prophets in just this way. Consider their message with the paradigm of God's desire and promise for an Earthly Kingdom of a fully restored 12-tribes, whole house of Jacob, including Judah/Jerusalem (Southern Dynasty; today's "Jews") to reconcile with Ephraim/Israel (Northern Dynasty/West Bank and northern mountains of Israel--the property in contention from our news today) and see what impact this has on all the "nations" of the World.

Please take time to study all the occasions in the Writings where the term "BE MY PEOPLE" appears, noting instances in Leviticus, and Ruth's conversion, along with Jeremiah and Ezekiel, and Zechariah's use of the phrase.

Consider the NT ramifications concerning the story of "The Prodical Son" and "The 10 Virgins", Luke's "10 pieces of silver" and his story concerning the "10 Lepers", or his parable of the 10 coins, 10 servants and the faithful servant.

Isa 65:9-10 And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servantS [PLURAL=JUDAH & ISRAEL=All 12 Tribes] shall dwell there. And Sharon shall be a fold of flocks, and the VALLEY OF ACHOR a place for the herds to lie down in, for my people that have sought me.

Ezek 37 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts... I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD... take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions: And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand...I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand. I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land: And I will make them ONE NATION in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all: Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwelling places, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so SHALL THEY BE MY PEOPLE (Lo-ammi), AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD. And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them. Moreover I will make a COVENANT OF PEACE WITH THEM (Lo-ruhamah; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top