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If you really believe that god will burn with flames people who don't know him, then shame on you for not being on the streets with a microphone telling every person that is out there. Many probably spend more time on the forum than telling people to avoid hell.
Is Universalism Biblical? --- Only if one is so 'locked-in' to a Universalism mindset that they are blindly willing to interpret anything/everything to support that position. Then, guess what? ... Universalism becomes Biblical.
If you really believe that god will burn with flames people who don't know him, then shame on you for not being on the streets with a microphone telling every person that is out there. Many probably spend more time on the forum than telling people to avoid hell.
Not sure it really bothers those who believe in ET....they figure it's their fault for rejecting God, kinda like they deserve it.
First Timothy 2:4 expresses God's desire that all be saved, but does not promise that all will be. This divine desire is only realized in those who exercise faith in Christ.
1Timothy 2:4 …who desires (wills, wants) all men to be saved and to come to the full knowledge of the truth.
John 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him!
"It’s an active, ongoing result of a previous action by and through the Faithfulness of Christ Jesus."
You do not know what manner of Spirit you are of: For the Son of Man did not come to destroy the lives of men, but to save them.
It is the ET doctrine that is of the anti-Christ which is why it is the majority today in these "latter days" 2000+ years after the death of Christ. As trettep pointed out:
"The Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge (1908) by Schaff-Herzog says in volume 12, on page 96, "In the first five or six centuries of Christianity there were six theological schools, of which four (Alexandria, Antioch, Caesarea, and Edessa, or Nisibis) were Universalist, one (Ephesus) accepted conditional immortality; one (Carthage or Rome) taught endless punishment of the wicked. Other theological schools are mentioned as founded by Universalists, but their actual doctrine on this subject is not known."
There may be some truth in what you (or the Schaff-Herzog publication) say, but, the Bible says otherwise.
Honestly, one can find a published source for virtually any/every position (particularly with the internet), but, unless one acknowledges an accepted 'truth standard' (the Bible), all else becomes opinion and conjecture.
During 30-years as a Bible Teacher/Preacher, the only folks I know of who are fixated on what they call a "doctrine of Eternal Torment" (ET) are the Universalists. They seem to use this as an 'us vs them boogey man' to lend credibility to their otherwise unscriptural position. On CD, those of the UR persuasion seem to immediately demonize anyone who doesn't fully embrace UR, as ET'rs. But, that's the same euphemistic nonsense that attempts to mitigate a myriad of untenable positions and actions with misleading labels.
Christians, such as myself, are focused on God's amazing love, mercy and grace. Yes, I recognize the reality that God's mercy and grace do not exist in a vacuum, and that an opposing condition must exist to give them definition. However, to characterize me/others as trying to 'frighten people with visions of hell and eternal torment' or refer to them as being “of the Anti-Christ” is utterly dishonest and self-serving.
There may be some truth in what you (or the Schaff-Herzog publication) say, but, the Bible says otherwise.
Honestly, one can find a published source for virtually any/every position (particularly with the internet), but, unless one acknowledges an accepted 'truth standard' (the Bible), all else becomes opinion and conjecture.
During 30-years as a Bible Teacher/Preacher, the only folks I know of who are fixated on what they call a "doctrine of Eternal Torment" (ET) are the Universalists. They seem to use this as an 'us vs them boogey man' to lend credibility to their otherwise unscriptural position. On CD, those of the UR persuasion seem to immediately demonize anyone who doesn't fully embrace UR, as ET'rs. But, that's simply euphemistic nonsense!
Christians, such as myself, are focused on God's amazing love, mercy and grace. (How anyone can acknowledge God's mercy and grace, without recognizing the opposing condition that gives them meaning, ... is difficult to comprehend -- that's what makes them and God so amazing!).
Can't rep you again but I tried. What an accurate presentation you have made of the people who focus on eternal punishment that being those of the cult of universalism and Christians. Thank you!
There may be some truth in what you (or the Schaff-Herzog publication) say, but, the Bible says otherwise.
Honestly, one can find a published source for virtually any/every position (particularly with the internet), but, unless one acknowledges an accepted 'truth standard' (the Bible), all else becomes opinion and conjecture.
During 30-years as a Bible Teacher/Preacher, the only folks I know of who are fixated on what they call a "doctrine of Eternal Torment" (ET) are the Universalists. They seem to use this as an 'us vs them boogey man' to lend credibility to their otherwise unscriptural position. On CD, those of the UR persuasion seem to immediately demonize anyone who doesn't fully embrace UR, as ET'rs. But, that's simply euphemistic nonsense!
Christians, such as myself, are focused on God's amazing love, mercy and grace. (How anyone can acknowledge God's mercy and grace, without recognizing the opposing condition that gives them meaning, ... is difficult to comprehend -- that's what makes them and God so amazing!).
The problem is that the doctrine of Eternal Torment is completely contrary to the nature of God and contrary to the mission of Christ. If your Teacher/Preacher, then tell me where the ERADICATION of sin takes place? All ET teaches is relocation of sinners to special place called "hell" but it teaches nothing about abolishing sin there. On the contrary, all I seem to hear is that those going there will be in eternal rebellion against God (that is a SIN). Eternal Torment is a preaching that the sinner gets to remain in SIN for the rest of eternity.
The Bible says that the very Purpose that Jesus came was to destroy the works of Satan which is SIN and yet Eternal Torment preaches that Sin gets its own kingdom and rules for the rest of eternity over its subjects. Sin personified would have to embrace the ET doctrine since it glorifies the mission of sin.
During 30-years as a Bible Teacher/Preacher, the only folks I know of who are fixated on what they call a "doctrine of Eternal Torment" (ET) are the Universalists. They seem to use this as an 'us vs them boogey man' to lend credibility to their otherwise unscriptural position. On CD, those of the UR persuasion seem to immediately demonize anyone who doesn't fully embrace UR, as ET'rs. But, that's simply euphemistic nonsense!
I totally disagree. The doctrine of eternal torment is based up on the teachings of men that's not even in the scripture. If you are teaching that Jesus Christ saved us from eternal hell, you are teaching another gospel. It is simply not to be found in the scriptures. The closest you can come to it which is a country mile off it still,is the wrath scripture that inerrantists love to quote, that's it, there is no other scripture you can come up with.
It's not only kept the church in fear, it's kept the world in fear too. The reason behind OSAS is to appease those who are not sure they are saved from eternal hell, the reason sin is continually talked about so much that grace doesnt get a look in, is because you believe sin sends you to eternal torment(again there's no scripture to support it).
I am fixed on taking down by the grace of God that which the 100% bible believing evangelical Fundamentalst inerrantist is fixed on and held by. It is not the world that needs to hear the message of Universal Reconciliation, but those within the church who are bound in their thinking by the doctrine of eternal torment.
If you believe in eternal torment and say you have never been in fear of it, you are fooling yourself. And if your foundation is fear then it goes without saying, fear is the motive behind why you believe.
There is no life outside of God worth living, a life of sin which is no more living without God and the knowledge of him in our life is no life. He came that we might have life by and life more abundantly, by blessing us and turning us away from our sin(a life independent from him to a life connected to the source), he did not come to save us from eternal hell. Acts 3:26.
There may be some truth in what you (or the Schaff-Herzog publication) say, but, the Bible says otherwise.
Honestly, one can find a published source for virtually any/every position (particularly with the internet), but, unless one acknowledges an accepted 'truth standard' (the Bible), all else becomes opinion and conjecture.
During 30-years as a Bible Teacher/Preacher, the only folks I know of who are fixated on what they call a "doctrine of Eternal Torment" (ET) are the Universalists. They seem to use this as an 'us vs them boogey man' to lend credibility to their otherwise unscriptural position. On CD, those of the UR persuasion seem to immediately demonize anyone who doesn't fully embrace UR, as ET'rs. But, that's the same euphemistic nonsense that attempts to mitigate a myriad of untenable positions and actions with misleading labels.
Christians, such as myself, are focused on God's amazing love, mercy and grace. Yes, I recognize the reality that God's mercy and grace do not exist in a vacuum, and that an opposing condition must exist to give them definition. However, to characterize me/others as trying to 'frighten people with visions of hell and eternal torment' or refer to them as being “of the Anti-Christ” is utterly dishonest and self-serving.
Bravo!
It's like when a person defiantly asks " Where do you get the idea that God kills folk ", then is shown from scriptures where:
Exodus 13:15
When Pharaoh stubbornly refused to let us go, the Lord killed the firstborn of both people and animals in Egypt.
Job 27:8
For what hope have the godless when they are cut off, when God takes away their life?
Joshua 10:11
As they fled before Israel on the road down from Beth Horon to Azekah, the Lord hurled
large hailstones down on them, and more of them died from the hail than were killed by the swords of the Israelites.
or events like when God opened the earth and swallows them up
Numbers 26:10
The earth opened its mouth and swallowed them along with Korah, whose followers died when the fire devoured the 250 men. And they served as a warning sign.
the same person responds to that by concluding ... Carry on and attribute it to your god. I agree, the term "ET'er" is code for those who backhandedly accuse God of being unfair \ unjust etc.
It's like when a person defiantly asks " Where do you get the idea that God kills folk ", then is shown from scriptures where:
Exodus 13:15
When Pharaoh stubbornly refused to let us go, the Lord killed the firstborn of both people and animals in Egypt.
Job 27:8
For what hope have the godless when they are cut off, when God takes away their life?
Joshua 10:11
As they fled before Israel on the road down from Beth Horon to Azekah, the Lord hurled
large hailstones down on them, and more of them died from the hail than were killed by the swords of the Israelites.
or events like when God opened the earth and swallows them up
Numbers 26:10
The earth opened its mouth and swallowed them along with Korah, whose followers died when the fire devoured the 250 men. And they served as a warning sign.
the same person responds to that by concluding ... Carry on and attribute it to your god. I agree, the term "ET'er" is code for those who backhandedly accuse God of being unfair \ unjust etc.
We reap what we sow, if we sow to the flesh of the flesh( not of God) we shall reap destruction. I find that pretty fair and just way. Here's another one.........For by thy words(not God) thou shalt be justified, and by thy words(not God)thou shalt be condemned
And another.......to be spiritually minded is life and peace to be carnally minded is sin and death.
Carry on and attribute it to your god.
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