Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Certainly the best response so far. Of course Katzpur comes from a belief set where an open canon and continuing revealed scripture is foundational.
I'd really like to hear from folks who do strongly believe in a closed canon. It seems illogical that something so foundational would have no reasonable explanation.
Why ? .... the only reason for the demand of an open one is from disbelief and\or the desire to be like god.
Why ? .... the only reason for the demand of an open one is from disbelief and\or the desire to be like god.
Thank you for the response. I was starting to think this thread was dead and that nobody was going to take a stab at responding to the underlying question, so thank you for the response.
I am not demanding an open canon. I am not demanding a closed one either. I'm not making any demands at all. I'm trying to understand.
What I'm getting at is this: The huge majority of all Christian religions believe in a closed canon. Doctrinal assumptions and conjecture is constantly being built upon the foundation of "because there can be no more word of God ... " and "because the Bible contains everything that God will ever tell us ..." etc. This makes a closed canon a core/foundational doctrine for most of the world's Christians. So what is the basis for positing that the canon is closed in the first place? It seems like a completely reckless logical leap to me unless there is something more to it that, "it just is, accept it."
"disbelief and\or the desire to be like god."
Moses, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul and Peter were just mortal imperfect men. The ydid not write because they disbelieved God. They did not write because they thought they knew better than God. So that part of your response doesn't make any sense. Perhaps I misunderstood, so please by all means help me understand what you are getting at. And by the way, I do try my best to be like Jesus, so guilty as charged.
The odd thing to me is how Christians who accept the doctrine of Sola Scriptura can be so insistent that the canon has been closed -- or at "officially" so. If everything God has ever said to humankind is contained in the Bible, wouldn't you expect Him to have made it clear when He intended to stop talking? I know of some very well-educated, well-informed Protestant scholars who are willing to accept the notion that, while the canon is closed in practice, it must be considered open in principle. It's a kind of an awkward position to be in, IMO, but at least it's an honest approach.
Unless something changes or we don't have enough information there would be no need for more. That's why you don't see anything after the deaths of the men who walked with Jesus and those close to them died.
What do you think is missing or has changed that would demand more scripture?
When, How and Why did the Scriptural Canon get Closed??
There have been many "When's" depending on which canon you are talking about. It began with Constantine. The "How" is by political discussion and compromise among the religious leaders present. The "Why" is to consolidate power, authority and control in the religious leadership. Given that God specifically abandoned the failed words "written in ink" for what He has "written in our hearts" and that what is "written in ink" contains "carnal milk" for the limited understanding of our ancestors and that not everything Jesus taught was recorded . . . the real reason is the vanity and hubris of humanity.
Thank you for the response. I was starting to think this thread was dead and that nobody was going to take a stab at responding to the underlying question, so thank you for the response.
I am not demanding an open canon. I am not demanding a closed one either. I'm not making any demands at all. I'm trying to understand.
What I'm getting at is this: The huge majority of all Christian religions believe in a closed canon. Doctrinal assumptions and conjecture is constantly being built upon the foundation of "because there can be no more word of God ... " and "because the Bible contains everything that God will ever tell us ..." etc. This makes a closed canon a core/foundational doctrine for most of the world's Christians. So what is the basis for positing that the canon is closed in the first place? It seems like a completely reckless logical leap to me unless there is something more to it that, "it just is, accept it."
"disbelief and\or the desire to be like god."
Moses, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul and Peter were just mortal imperfect men. The ydid not write because they disbelieved God. They did not write because they thought they knew better than God. So that part of your response doesn't make any sense. Perhaps I misunderstood, so please by all means help me understand what you are getting at. And by the way, I do try my best to be like Jesus, so guilty as charged.
First off ... as far as the OT is concerned, by the time of Jesus it was well established what they were and Jesus himself defined them "books of Moses, Psalm's and the Prophets".
As a theologian once wrote:
If the Old Testament church had either included books in the canon that were not inspired, or excluded books that were, Jesus would not have been silent about such a dangerous situation. Yet we have no word of correction from his mouth.
The books God intended for the New Testament canon were all written before the death of the last surviving apostle, John. This "disciple whom Jesus loved" was of inestimable value to the early church in sorting out authentic inspired writings from counterfeits.
However, the most powerful testimony that the books we have are the books God intended us to have, is the powerful testimony of the books themselves. The books of the Bible have the power within themselves to establish their inspiration. As the writer to the Hebrews tells us, "The word of God is living and active" (Hebrews 4:12). Jesus tells us why that is so, "The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life." (John 6:63). The power of the Spirit is always at work in and through God’s inspired words. He who gave that Word to the apostles and prophets still inhabits it so that it has the power to "make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus" (2 Timothy 3:15).
To answer the question "what is the basis for positing that the canon is closed in the first place?"
A: inestimable value to the early church in sorting out authentic inspired writings from counterfeits.
You need to understand the significance to the statement by Jesus about the writings only of the Apostles:
John 14:26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name,will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
The truth is the NT that we have is everything we are suppose to have because the Father didn't leave something unannounced for some future date.
Everything is " e v e r y t h i n g " ... what more is to be said when everything was taught and said?
You need to understand the significance to the statement by Jesus about the writings only of the Apostles:
John 14:26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name,will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
The truth is the NT that we have is everything we are suppose to have because the Father didn't leave something unannounced for some future date.
Everything is " e v e r y t h i n g " ... what more is to be said when everything was taught and said?
That misrepresented statement has noting to to with the "writings only of the Apostles." It speaks of the Comforter(Holy Spirit) that is available to us all within our consciousness to guide us to the truth God has "written in our hearts."
John 14:26 King James Version (KJV)
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
What I have been told is that God sent His prophets to the people of Israel and they were rejected. So God decided He would come Himself disguised as the son and bring a state of confusion in His wrath. Jesus then left and with Him God departed from man to be left to accept His prophets and the son of man. This is why Jesus said; "You will not see me again until you say blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord."
The Lord said; "I am going back to my place until you have paid for your guilt and you seek my presence."
"See, I am sending my messenger to prepare the way before me, and the Lord whom you seek will suddenly come to his temple. The messenger of the covenant in whom you delight—truly, he is coming, says the Lord of hosts.
That misrepresented statement has noting to to with the "writings only of the Apostles." It speaks of the Comforter(Holy Spirit) that is available to us all within our consciousness to guide us to the truth God has "written in our hearts."
John 14:26 King James Version (KJV)
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
And they wrote everything that they were inspired to by the Holy Spirit .... but besides you have no creditability with me for once again you disdain the written word over your self idolatry with this inner conscious ruled by the futility of human hearts.
Please ... keep your bag of marbles to an audience that listens also to false spirits.
You quite honestly should be no less mandated to not converse with those of us who vehemently disagree with you as those of us who are mandated not to converse with any LDS who happens not to agree with us.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
When, How and Why did the Scriptural Canon get Closed??
