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This post is not directed to those who are active in the community, teachers, police/fire or hospital staff , or caretakers of ill/infirm relatives. These individuals are all but tethered to the area - BUT - everybody else...why are you still there? This post also isnt meant to be just a rant about the crime & poor performing schools but more of a quality of life issue. Job opportunities are low on the south side so many of you commute downtown or to the burbs. Sure housing is cheaper, and maybe you're around familiar cultures and demographics but if the point of this life is to live it to the fullest - why do you remain in an area thats stagnant?
And yes - I know there has been SOME improvements, but anybody on this forum knows that the south side still leaves a sour taste in mouths. Heck - popular Real Estate publications dont even illustrate property beyond US Cellular/Bridgeport. When people ask for honest feedback regarding relocation Hyde Park may be the only south side area mentioned. After chalking up Crook county taxes, lack of REAL urban development and the 800lb crime & poor schools elephant in the room - what is the REAL reason you stay. I know people who drive to areas like Deerfield from the far south side everyday - so is it tradition, fear, laziness, comfort zone, indifference...
Its so funny that people from far away lands break their necks to get to USA soil and strive to attain something "better" than what they have always known. Yet so many here have no pioneering spirit. I'm sure there is a sociological perspective on the why - but I'd love to hear some feedback from the forum.
Last edited by DADASGIRL; 06-01-2010 at 07:43 PM..
It's a fair question. For me the answer starts with the choice of school -- I couldn't find anywhere that I liked nearly as much as the Lab School in Hyde Park -- totally top notch academically without being excessively snooty, people from all over the world, minimum pressure in the early years, K-12 so never have to change schools, amazing parent involvement, etc. Once that choice was made it puts pretty strong constraints on where one can live without being too inconvenient. I didn't want a condo, eliminating most of the South Loop and near north side, and I found the housing market in Hyde Park to be overpriced. Flossmoor (quick train ride) and Beverly (10 miles away) both appealed to me tremendously. I chose Beverly because of the distance and what I saw as the tremendous upside of the neighborhood.
While Beverly lacks many top notch urban amenities, it's hard for me to imagine a place that is more beautiful, friendly, and tranquil. It is also gives me relatively easy access to everything in the city. I hardly consider it a hardship, and the house, after some work, is absolutely spectacular.
For the record, my taxes are very low. Not sure that I incur any special economic burden living there. I also don't ever experience any violent crime, and even the petty crime rates in beverly are pretty low compared to what I'm used to. The fact that the neighboring areas are poor doesn't affect me at all -- I'm from a third-world country and am totally accustomed to poor people -- they don't bother or scare me in general.
After chalking up Crook county taxes, lack of REAL urban development and the 800lb crime & poor schools elephant in the room - what is the REAL reason you stay. I know people who drive to areas like Deerfield from the far south side everyday - so is it tradition, fear, laziness, comfort zone, indifference...
Well, you presuppose that a normal person with money and upward mobility would flee. That is not quite accurate. In areas outside of Hyde Park or Beverly, such as Pill Hill, Oakwood, Woodlawn, the Jackson Park Highlands and Chatham, there are middle-income folks getting along quite nicely. It really is tragic that outsiders have developed views of the entire south side with little first-hand experience of the place.
I know all the statistics and the news incidents. The south side is convenient to the city center, close to the lake, close to transportation and familiar for millions of people. Why would anyone live in Alaska when they could live in Marin County, CA?
What people on this forum often fail to credit is that there are generations of sane, middle-income individuals living in the areas they are so fast to discredit. They grew their kids there -- like Michelle and her brother Craig.
I think the answer is realtively simple. Some folks are trapped by the unintended consequences of circumstance while others stay for the simple pleasures of a vibrant city, international foods and awesome views of a Great Lake. Everyone else falls in between the two. I have two in-law families that have lived in the suburbs for three generations and would never think of moving. . .
Because I like being able to afford a home with a basement and 2-car garage on a single salary? I love the freedom that comes with not being concerned about parking (street sweepers, snow plows, and trigger-ticket writing cops). And my guests have a place to park too, LOL. Sure, I could move up North and get gouged for a shoebox but I just have no desire to be there. I don't care about clubs and "nightlife". I don't care about millions of restaurants or coffee shops. I don't care about being near sports stadiums. I don't have kids so don't care about schools. But if I did, I'm a block away from a really nice magnet. I was born and raised on the ss and don't care for the suburban lifestyle at all. I'm across the street from a really nice park with a brand new field house and can ride my bike to the lake. I'm near family, friends, dentists, doctors. As far as crime, I only had 1 incident where my old car radio was stolen when I was living in a different area. My neighborhood is great (nice variety of really cute homes), neighbors are great and I'm living life just fine, thanks for your concern though My overall QOL just works for me on the southside.
...
And yes - I know there has been SOME improvements, but anybody on this forum knows that the south side still leaves a sour taste in mouths. ...
Really?
Admittedly, I live downtown, but I seriously considered several parts of the South Side (and I don't mean the South Loop) when I was home-hunting.
"The South Side" isn't the monolith you apparently think it is, so I think it's pretty clear here that the "problem" isn't that people who choose to live there lack "pioneering spirit," but that you simply lack both direct experience with the South Side and general life experience to understand the South Side and alternate views on what constitutes a desirable place to live. It's rather telling that you're so dismissive with "sure housing is cheaper," as though cost of living is something of only coincidental consideration. Even "upwardly mobile" people will, more often than not, be far better served in the long run to control their costs than to just cavalierly (over)spend their money on something they've been told is better. Keeping up with the Joneses, even just by moving next door to them, is no way to secure long-term economic security.
I would answer differently if you had limited your scope, but to just act as though the entire South Side were some sort of monolithic hellhole is just absurd, condescending and ignorant.
Well, you presuppose that a normal person with money and upward mobility would flee. That is not quite accurate. In areas outside of Hyde Park or Beverly, such as Pill Hill, Oakwood, Woodlawn, the Jackson Park Highlands and Chatham, there are middle-income folks getting along quite nicely. It really is tragic that outsiders have developed views of the entire south side with little first-hand experience of the place.
Agreed. I spend plenty of time in the Southside and would consider moving to many areas of it. There is only about 10-20% of it that I would feel uncomfortable living in. I think people stay there for quality of life and in some areas - affordability.
I don’t live on the south side but I do live in an urban suburb that doesn’t regularly make the Top 25 places to live in those U.S. News and World Reports surveys. My wife and I definitely have a high enough household income now to move out of our starter home and on to greener pastures but we have decided not to. Since at least some of our reasons may be shared by south siders who choose to stay in their neighborhoods (which are fundamentally similar in a lot of ways), I’ll tell you why:
1. We like the location. We’re less than 20 minutes from the Loop (the Midwest’s largest job base) by auto or train and are surrounded by good restaurants and bars, not just our own community but others like Oak Park and Forest Park. Two business districts where we can enjoy good food and drink are walkable. We’re 4 blocks from a Metra train and a half a block from a bus stop. We’re also very close to I-290 and I-55.
2. We like the house. We have a Chicago bungalow, which is a unique and very well built brick home built in the ‘20s with stained glass windows, oak floors, a brick garage, and plenty of space (about 2,800 square feet now that all three floors are done). These homes are all over the south side too. It’s a piece of Chicago history, suprisingly adaptable to modern living once updated, and sure beats a McMansion or tract home in a further out suburb, which would cost more and wouldn’t be as well built.
3. We like the neighborhood. Take it from someone who lived in exburbia and even on a farm for a time – these dense urban areas definitely lead to a sense of community that you simply don’t have in places where lots are bigger and population more homogonous. You never feel alone. We really like the social connections and friendship network we’ve developed here.
4. Private schools. Our particular public elementary school happens to be decent but the community’s schools on the whole are so so. But we’ve always intended to send our kids to private schools, and there are several great options, including St. Mary in Riverside within walking distance, and three good private high schools very close by. We’re similar to Beverly in this respect. This said, we do wish the community had better schools. There are benefits to these even if you don’t intend to use them. If we had to point to one thing we really don’t like about our community, this is it.
5. Future migration patterns. I know no one has a crystal ball (except Chet of course ;-) ) but we feel that over time, people are going to tend towards walkable areas that are near public transit and closer to major urban centers. That will probably bode poorly for exburbs (particularly as their less well constructed huge homes age) and will benefit City neighborhoods and dense suburbs that are public transit friendly and have a better built housing stock.
6. We don’t want to be house poor. We’re better off financially than when we moved here and some would say it's time for us to move to Oak Park or somewhere like that but it’s kind of nice to have a cheap mortgage. We’re debt free and can do more things and can support the house on one income should we have a child, one of us lose our job, get sick, etc., etc.
7. It’s expensive to move. People don’t think much of it but once you factor in commissions, closing costs, attorneys’ fees, and moving expenses, you’re probably looking at $20-25k to just get out of your old house and into your “dream home.” Then once you’re in, you’ll have a higher mortgage, taxes, utilities, etc. That really adds up over time.
8. The environment. Not trying to sound self-righteous but what some may call a “pioneering spirit” can also be viewed as wasteful and short sighted when looked at from a different angle. And what are you really going to pioneer these days anyway? A poor acre or two of farm land that will never produce soybeans again :-( I want to contribute to this as little as possible.
Those are my $.02 on it. There are more reasons of course but those are the top ones.
I appreciate the feedback - and I didnt mean to offend or generalize a group of people. For the record - I was born & raised on the south side. I have 20+ years of full frontal south side living starting in 1978 and my experiences were not bad. We were 2nd generation Blacks in the area ( Pill Hill ) that was previously occupied by predominately Jewish residents. My neighborhood was neat and my neighbors were all working class. Sure we had some bad apples - but what area doesnt?
There has been a decline in many south side areas for a multitude of reasons - I know 1st hand that the residents arent always the culprit. The Chicago Machine has always found a way to keep the SS in the dark and not so cherished as other areas. It pre-dates me but the story goes that Daddy Daley's Dan Ryan project divided the have's & have nots.
Recent gentrification shifts seem to be the ONLY evidence that the landscape is changing or will change. Maybe now the SS will have more than a handful of magnet schools which truly shouldnt be differentiated from any other "basic" school - but thats a whole other topic. If you stay due to tradition - thats great. If you stay because of the affordability or charm or because the south side is a treasure that the majority of the population overlooks - GREAT! I am simply trying to take a poll. I personally left the SS for career reasons - there was no way I was gonna donate 180 minutes of my life everyday to commute. but thats me - I was simply inquiring about you the public....
And as far as pioneering goes - I presume the main motivation for migration is being dissatisfied. If you arent unhappy - you wont feel the need to move. And so far from the responses the good outweighs the bad for the SSiders...
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My overall QOL just works for me on the southside.
