is Chicago going Green? (Knoxville, Energy: rental car, rental, tenants)

[long101]

Originally Posted by Carantini

I still, to this day, cannot believe anyone really voluntarily recycles or does anything at all to genuinely save the environment. i can only see it if its an immediate monetary benefit, like bums with cans for nickels, or when theres no other light bulb available but the greener one.

i mean, i know they do, but i just cant believe it. i probably sound ignorant as hell to some of you who do recycle and such, but cmon, green? you wanna make our city cooler in the summer by painting our roofs white and putting gardens on them? our city is freezing all the time, let us be hot for one season dammit.. i welcome urban heat island effect. i want to feel hot in the summer, not cool. so does most everyone else. environment? please, what do we really care about it? we have nukes and kill people in far away lands everyday, so ppl are dying anyway, what are we doing?! argh! I cant believe it. the hippy hypocrites won this battle, so far. but we non hypocrites will win the war.
if we all do a little we can do a lot. is that the mentality. then i get it if its easy to do, like put a can in a can garbage in a chipotle (damn theyre good), but painting the sears silver? cmnon, leed certification for some expensive stuff that pays you much much later? cmon. we need money now, not later. unless your filthy rich, your a bad biz man if your do something like this.,

You need to watch war of the worlds. I bet you also dont believe in 401ks or savings accounts huh.

[UnderTheLiveOaks]

Originally Posted by jdiddy

Change 'probably' to 'always' and you would be correct.

This.

[surlycue]

Originally Posted by Carantini

I still, to this day, cannot believe anyone really voluntarily recycles or does anything at all to genuinely save the environment. i can only see it if its an immediate monetary benefit, like bums with cans for nickels, or when theres no other light bulb available but the greener one.

i mean, i know they do, but i just cant believe it. i probably sound ignorant as hell to some of you who do recycle and such, but cmon, green? you wanna make our city cooler in the summer by painting our roofs white and putting gardens on them? our city is freezing all the time, let us be hot for one season dammit.. i welcome urban heat island effect. i want to feel hot in the summer, not cool. so does most everyone else. environment? please, what do we really care about it? we have nukes and kill people in far away lands everyday, so ppl are dying anyway, what are we doing?! argh! I cant believe it. the hippy hypocrites won this battle, so far. but we non hypocrites will win the war.
if we all do a little we can do a lot. is that the mentality. then i get it if its easy to do, like put a can in a can garbage in a chipotle (damn theyre good), but painting the sears silver? cmnon, leed certification for some expensive stuff that pays you much much later? cmon. we need money now, not later. unless your filthy rich, your a bad biz man if your do something like this.,

...

[eevee]

Originally Posted by jdiddy

Change 'probably' to 'always' and you would be correct.

+1

Originally Posted by RichMonk

City-wide recycling would be good...

true too. It's disappointing that there isn't a simple, city wide recycle program. sure, there are places where you can take recyclables, but it's not convenient, esp. for those w/o cars. I try to take all my plastic bags and bottles/cans to the supermarket w/ me when I shop, but I often forget and it's very burdensome to do so

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by Carantini

I still, to this day, cannot believe anyone really voluntarily recycles or does anything at all to genuinely save the environment. i can only see it if its an immediate monetary benefit, like bums with cans for nickels, or when theres no other light bulb available but the greener one.

i mean, i know they do, but i just cant believe it. i probably sound ignorant as hell to some of you who do recycle and such, but cmon, green? you wanna make our city cooler in the summer by painting our roofs white and putting gardens on them? our city is freezing all the time, let us be hot for one season dammit.. i welcome urban heat island effect. i want to feel hot in the summer, not cool. so does most everyone else. environment? please, what do we really care about it? we have nukes and kill people in far away lands everyday, so ppl are dying anyway, what are we doing?! argh! I cant believe it. the hippy hypocrites won this battle, so far. but we non hypocrites will win the war.
if we all do a little we can do a lot. is that the mentality. then i get it if its easy to do, like put a can in a can garbage in a chipotle (damn theyre good), but painting the sears silver? cmnon, leed certification for some expensive stuff that pays you much much later? cmon. we need money now, not later. unless your filthy rich, your a bad biz man if your do something like this.,

as soon as everyone wants to give up having heat in the winter and air-conditioning in the summer, sure.

but I think you're a bit delusional if you think people are going to give those creature comforts up any time soon.

regarding recycling, it's easy - do you want to have to bury your trash in your back yard? because at the rate the landfills are filling up, and given that nobody wants to open new ones (at least nowhere near here, and hauling that trash is a fortune), those will be the options.

we've been living in a very disposal and UN-sustainable society for a long, long time, and the piper needs to be paid. at the end of the day, being green is being sustainable. and being sustainable is living a lifestyle that won't screw over your kids. it's bad enough they're going to get a $10,000,000,000,000 debt handed to them they did nothing to deserve, so some clean air and water would be a nice consolation prize.

[Carantini]

i didnt say anything about giving up heat or ac.
i dont see anyone burying garbage in backyards anywhere. its too long term of a mentality for such effort.
were very sanitary in america, too sanitary.
we were kids once, we inherited bull.shi.t, thats life.
i dont know what u mean by sustainable. but im sure were fine. look at china. and theyre like 3000 times our population.

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by Carantini

i didnt say anything about giving up heat or ac.
i dont see anyone burying garbage in backyards anywhere. its too long term of a mentality for such effort.
were very sanitary in america, too sanitary.
we were kids once, we inherited bull.shi.t, thats life.
i dont know what u mean by sustainable. but im sure were fine. look at china. and theyre like 3000 times our population.

I know you didn't, that's because this all appears to be new to you.

Heat and AC are produced via fossil fuels - fossil fuels cause pollution. Pollution gives people asthma, and is screwing up the environment, which has quantifiable economic (as well as health) consequences. Not to mention the fossil fuels are running out, and our history is full of the USA propping up very, very, very bad people to secure stockpiles of oil.

Sustainable, as in "being sustainable," means that the activity can go on through perpetuity, that's why you are hearing so much about renewable energy, because the source (be it solar, geothermal, wind, etc) is endless.

You should look at China, and you should ask if that's the life you want for your kids. China is renowned for sweatshop labor, censorship, and an amazingly accelerated destruction of natural resources.

As the cost of landfilling trash continues to rise due to shrinking supply and increased demand (and costs to transport), what we'll start seeing is people getting fined for not recycling, and it wouldn't surprise me to see the City eventually crack down on all the fly-by-night construction types who currently fly-dump in City garbage cans. In some European countries people get ONE trash can per household, and that's it...

[Irishtom29]

Originally Posted by Chi-town Native

Heat and AC are produced via fossil fuels - fossil fuels cause pollution. Pollution gives people asthma, and is screwing up the environment, which has quantifiable economic (as well as health) consequences. Not to mention the fossil fuels are running out, and our history is full of the USA propping up very, very, very bad people to secure stockpiles of oil.

Well there's still plenty of coal. And burning it is much cleaner than it used to be what with precips and SCRs. And now experiments with pumping CO2 into the ground.

Cleaning up coal can help Illinois a great deal, besides providing work for the tradesmen building the new clean units and retrofitting old ones it could revitalize the coal industry in southern Illinois which took a huge hit when powerhouses starting burning low sulphur PRB coal from Wyoming. And PRB coal is NASTY, dangerous ****, like gunpowder----BOOM! You really gotta be careful working around that stuff.

[Chi-town Native]

maybe. the jury is definitely still out on whether it's actually what it's promised to be. I personally think we'd be way better off putting wind farms in areas not suited for human settlement (flood plains, the Bad Lands), solar thermal and PV plants in the desert, geothermal EVERY where, etc. Lots and lots and lots of good jobs there. the IBEW guys are starting to install solar on chicago public schools, it's a great idea.

the problem with clean coal is it is extremely difficult to find objective info on it - I don't trust Greenpeace any more than I do "coal.org," the extremists have taken over the issue.

digging a bit, this seems fairly even-handed, tell me what you think:

What is ‘clean coal,’ anyway? | csmonitor.com

[Irishtom29]

Originally Posted by Chi-town Native

digging a bit, this seems fairly even-handed, tell me what you think:

What is ‘clean coal,’ anyway? | csmonitor.com

Well as the article states "clean coal" is a moving target.

Personally I'm not bothered by mountain top removal; this is happening in some of the most God-forsaken areas in eastern Kentucky and the people who are against are not the people of eastern Kentucky....they need the work.

Underground mining is dangerous but far safer than it used to be, especially in UMW mines where the union looks out for safety. In any event men choose to do dangerous work and are pretty well compensated for it, at least in UMW mines.

We'll see if this CO2 removal is going to work; the experimantal plant in Matoon is going ahead. So we'll see. And there's no doubt that precips, SCRs and over-fired air have made coal burning much cleaner than it was a generation ago.

There's also interest in technology to burn coal to make hydrogen for fuel cell powered cars. So IF we can burn coal cleanly enough we'll have an abundant and clean energy source. If. I note that some Greenists are against clean coal on almost religious grounds and hope for it to fail which doesn't seem very productive.

Being a retired boilermaker with two sons in the trade I've a vested interest in clean coal, just so you know. I made much of my living installing and maintaining anti pollution devices in powerhouses, steel mills, refineries and chemical plants. I built and maintained nukes too.

Why I'm probably the greenest guy here.