Tired of NYC - Move to Chicago? (Manhattan, Brooklyn: transplants, salon)

[Drover]

Maybe it's time for you two to create your own "Chicago v. New York Creativity" thread and duke it out over there?

[Paige65]

Originally Posted by Chicago60614

Just cause it's the midwest does not mean it's some 3rd world place where people know nothing about the rest of the world. We're still part of the United States. I'm annoyed at people from the east/west coast thinking people in the midwest are these confused bumpkins who never travel and think a night out is going to Wal-Mart..

So true. It's mildly annoying, isn't it?

By the way, where are these east/west coasts you are talking about?

[DC's Finest]

I proved my point by asking you the question, where would you go if you were a beckoning muscian, actor, designer or artist trying to get discovered? You keep harping on Manhattan's consumption but you have yet to explain why NY continues to lead the way in the creative arts scene. Name another US city where more actors, musicians, artist, models, performers and designer are located. People looking to break in the industry will always go to where the action is. It's simple.

[noplacelike]

Originally Posted by DC's Finest

I proved my point by asking you the question, where would you go if you were a beckoning muscian, actor, designer or artist trying to get discovered? You keep harping on Manhattan's consumption but you have yet to explain why NY continues to lead the way in the creative arts scene. Name another US city where more actors, musicians, artist, models, performers and designer are located. People looking to break in the industry will always go to where the action is. It's simple.

Again the question is about Manhattan, which was the original assertion. Models, indeed fashion designers, are not generally spoken of in the same breath as artists, including musicians and actors. Perhaps this mentality is where the difficulty lies. My answer as to numbers of artists creating is Chicago. The CSO remains premier in the country, picking that matter back up; Robert Falls of the Goodman Theatre the premier dramatic theater director in the country (New York-based actors vie to work here); the reputation and quality of the Lyric Opera competitive with the Met. Chicago has its own school of photography and is very much alive as an art form here. The School of the Art Institute is in many areas the best in the country. Our theatre scene is nonpareil. Pilsen, Wicker Park, Bucktown, Ukraine Village are wall to wall visual artists and musicians, as they are general throughout the city. What IS superior in Manhattan is the art museums. On another topic, the fashion models are better also. We do not consider them creative artists, however. After the 80s invasion of the vulgarians in Manhattan, other cities such as Seattle, Athens, GA, etc. stopped exporting their artists, including musicians. The high cost of Manhattan real estate remains, as does the corresponding lack of creative artists. I lived in the Chelsea Hotel in the 70s. THEN Manhattan was still alive. Now it is fast becoming Disneyesque.

No thank you, we'll duke it out right here Drover. It is part of answering the original question, to which questioner I will add that this is a blue city in a blue state; we are not conservative. Last I checked, NYC had a Republican mayor, preceded by Giuliani. Most artists are not Republican either.

[Chiguy1957]

I think Chicago and NY are similar in many ways. World-class cities, cultural and financial hubs, and examples of stark contrasts. Both have seen boom and bust times, both have reinvented themselves, and both offer the absolute best of the urban dream for some, and the most debilitating poverty imaginable for others.

Other than population, the biggest difference seems to be in the "COTFU" and legend-in-their-own-mind attitude of many NYers. Ironically enough, those exhibiting such 'tudes seem to be from somewhere else, and are every bit as provincial as the hicks from west of the Hudson that they disdain.

Chicagoans have been tagged with having a second city inferiority complex, but I look at it more as strong civic pride, well-devloped sense of place, and willingness of Chicagoans to tell someone they're full of it when warranted. To broadbrush it, NY is all about image, glitz, glamour, and "look-at-me" spectacle. Chicago is about quiet determination, substance, humility, and keepin' it real.

I have no empirical data here; just going on personal experience, but I'll take the everyday people, the spectacular beauty, and the much-maligned "Midwestern values" of Chicago over the shallow pasticity of the coasts any day of the week. A little civic rivalry never hurt anyone.

Finally, I'm puzzled by those who seemingly hate Chicago (or anyplace for that matter) but stay. For God's sake, people, if you hate it that much, pack your freaking bags and go look for that greener grass!

[neonwattagelimit]

As a New Yorker relocating to Chicago, I find this debate sort of puzzling. I don't think anyone, save perhaps the most insufferable coastal snob, would deny that Chicago is one of America's creative centers and has a vibrant, and thriving, arts scene. I don't think anyone would deny that it is one of America's great cities, and one of the world's great cities.

But New York is THE artistic and cultural capital of the country, if not the world. New York is the center of....I don't even want to make the list, because it would be too long. For a Chicagoan to to take offense to, or issue with, someone saying "New York has a more vibrant arts community" would be like me taking offense to someone saying "well, you're a very good-looking guy, but not quite Brad Pitt," or "you're a really great writer, but you're a notch below James Joyce." Of course New York has a more vibrant arts community! It's New York, for crying out loud! But that's no slight at Chicago.

I will admit, however, that noplace does have quite a valid point about Manhattan. Manhattan is great, but at this point it's mostly a playground for the rich.

While there are similarities between the two, Chicago is not New York and New York is not Chicago. I don't see why Chicago should want to be New York. I'm from New York, I love it here and will return someday. But a big part of the reason I'm leaving is that right now I'm looking for a change. If Chicago were exactly like New York, I'd just stay here!

[noplacelike]

No, New York WAS New York. But thank you for testifying to the downfall of Manhattan.

[DC's Finest]

What downfall? I hate it when people say Manhattan or SF is not affordable. By whose standards? I hear the same argument about Chicago from Midwestern hicks. Don't knock it, if you can't afford it. BTW, everyone in Manhattan is not rich. People have been making it in Manhattan without the $100,000 salaries.

[Avengerfire]

Originally Posted by DC's Finest

I proved my point by asking you the question, where would you go if you were a beckoning muscian, actor, designer or artist trying to get discovered? You keep harping on Manhattan's consumption but you have yet to explain why NY continues to lead the way in the creative arts scene. Name another US city where more actors, musicians, artist, models, performers and designer are located. People looking to break in the industry will always go to where the action is. It's simple.

L.A. ...........

[toedrag]

NYC is changing it has gotten so expensive and unrealistic that the artists and the creative people are moving out of the city to Brooklyn and a few areas of Queens because of the prices. There is still no better city in the world and you cant compare the two becasue they are totally different. But Chicago is a city that is affordable and realistic and alot more down to earth than NY and has everything with the lake, parks and so on.