Soon to be CS graduate with questions (Chicago, Rochester: sales, insurance) - Illinois (IL) - City-Data Forum

kungfulkoder · 10-15-2007, 10:03 PM

I am a fifth year CS student at RIT (Rochester Institute of Technology) and have been focusing on places to look for either a co-op (like an internship but has to meet a minimum pay amount and number of hours worked) or full time employment in the Chicago area. From what I have seen so far, there is a good amount of opportunity here. I would like to hear from people on these forums what your opinions are on the industry in the area at the moment, and how hard you think it would be for a fresh graduate from out of state to enter into the workforce. I can list relevant skills/information if that makes a difference, but I am more concerned with general trends at the moment.

As far as what I know about the city; I have a good friend in Chicago that I went to school with for two years. From the various conversations we have had, the city rocks. I love the fact that so many people use public transportation. If I never have to own a car in my life, I would be perfectly happy with that. I also hear Chicago has a ton of bike trails, which I would probably end up using from time to time. The weather isn't San Diego sunny, but considering I've been in Rochester, NY over four years now I think I can deal with the cold.
From what I have heard there is more sun in Chicago versus Rochester too. I'm twenty two, will be twenty three when/if I head out that way, and look forward to hitting up some of the nightlife (though I like a more relaxed atmosphere). Cost of living seems to be higher, but considering everything above it looks like a really good deal and is still a lot better than San Diego, LA, San Fran, NYC, etc.

My other concerns are these. How are entry level developer wages compared to cost of living? Is there any large misconceptions I seem to have towards the area, and is there anything else important I should know that seems to be missing from the big picture? Thanks for your input!

Attrill · 10-15-2007, 11:22 PM

What you can earn is based directly on your skill set. i.e. - are you looking for front end or programming (css, html, js, actionscript, versus c++, PHP, SQL, Ruby, Python, etc.). In general I think about 30-40K for a moderate skill level would be the base (lower end for front end development, higher for more complicated programming skills). Flexibility in job descriptions helps as well - if you know apache (or MS) well, and SQL and you're willing to do sysadmin work you could find jobs in that field in the higher end of the range. There are plenty of opportunities for computer work in Chicago, ranging from database work for banks and insurance companies to OOP Actionscript jobs at ad agencies. Craigslist is a good place to check for a general idea.

At that general salary range you can live in your own place in a decent neighborhood, but having a roommate will allow you to have a lot more cash to go out and really enjoy the city.

And yeah - if you can deal with Rochester, Chicago will be a bit better weatherwise (a little more sun and a lot less wind and snow).

UnderTheLiveOaks · 10-16-2007, 09:02 AM

Attrill's spot on with his job comments, so I'll just remark that this is a very special moment on the CD forums: Someone people can't try to scare away because the weather is bad!

Now they'll just try to tell you that crime is bad (it isn't in most of the city), public trans is a nightmare (there are issues at the moment, but it's still better than most systems), and that taxes are too high. (Sales taxes are high, but sales tax on groceries is superlow at 2%. You'll be fine!)

Nightlife here is plentiful, and much of it is, like you requested, more relaxed. You can find clubs here, but I've been in chicago for several years now and have been to maybe 5 clubs in that time. Bars? We got 'em. All sorts. Good, fun bars. Plenty of shows. Concerts. Comedy. All the good stuff.
Like that stuff and don't mind a little chilly weather? This might just be your next home.

desibear · 10-16-2007, 11:15 AM

one thing to keep in mind is that a lot of entry level IT jobs are out in the 'burbs as most big corporations have fled the city itself. Look towards the northwest 'burbs to find many corporations that can offer you an oppt'y.

UnderTheLiveOaks · 10-16-2007, 01:25 PM

Hmmm. I don't know about that. Check the city first. Yeah, some companies are in the burbs, but there's plenty of opportunity in the city. It's a pain to commute to the burbs, and it sounds like you're looking to live in the city.

kungfulkoder · 10-30-2007, 11:01 AM

Thanks for the comments everyone, I really appreciate it. I have a few follow up comments/questions:

Attrill - Is 30-40k really base pay for CS grads? The national average starting salary is 55k. I realize places like the valley might throw the average off a bit due to larger wages and even larger costs of living, but I still figured 45-55k+ would be reasonable for a larger city like Chicago. It has a moderate increase in living expenses over rochester and according to a CNNMoney calculator the salary difference for equivalent living standards is about 5k. That would put it about in line with what some of the companies have been offering here.

If it makes a difference, my focus has been moreso on applicaiton development vs web (some PHP and RoR). Two areas I'm lacking in experience is a lot of time on P/SQL and .Net framework development. I have some P/SQL, but could use more. That is why I am taking a more advanced database class next quarter is just for that reason. We learn on Sun machines mostly here in my department, and a lot of my side projects have been muti-platform focused (own a mac and a PC) so that means java, C/C++ with cross platform compilation script, ruby/python/perl, etc. So I can use the .Net framework on my own at side projects, but it is only used in one or two specific courses so exposure here is lower than some other places.

CarolinaBredChicagoan - I figured from what I've been seeing on the boards and heard from my friend who lives in the area that your info sounds about right. I'm *really* hoping to get a job somewhere that lets me use public transportation for both environmental and monetary reasons. Still not a huge fan of cold winters, but its not easy to top rochester, especially since my college was built in the middle of a swamp

NYrules · 10-30-2007, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kungfulkoder

I am a fifth year CS student at RIT (Rochester Institute of Technology) and have been focusing on places to look for either a co-op (like an internship but has to meet a minimum pay amount and number of hours worked) or full time employment in the Chicago area. From what I have seen so far, there is a good amount of opportunity here. I would like to hear from people on these forums what your opinions are on the industry in the area at the moment, and how hard you think it would be for a fresh graduate from out of state to enter into the workforce. I can list relevant skills/information if that makes a difference, but I am more concerned with general trends at the moment.

As far as what I know about the city; I have a good friend in Chicago that I went to school with for two years. From the various conversations we have had, the city rocks. I love the fact that so many people use public transportation. If I never have to own a car in my life, I would be perfectly happy with that. I also hear Chicago has a ton of bike trails, which I would probably end up using from time to time. The weather isn't San Diego sunny, but considering I've been in Rochester, NY over four years now I think I can deal with the cold.
From what I have heard there is more sun in Chicago versus Rochester too. I'm twenty two, will be twenty three when/if I head out that way, and look forward to hitting up some of the nightlife (though I like a more relaxed atmosphere). Cost of living seems to be higher, but considering everything above it looks like a really good deal and is still a lot better than San Diego, LA, San Fran, NYC, etc.

My other concerns are these. How are entry level developer wages compared to cost of living? Is there any large misconceptions I seem to have towards the area, and is there anything else important I should know that seems to be missing from the big picture? Thanks for your input!

If you can deal with winter on the east coast you can certainly handle a Chicago winter. Our winters are no match to those being home to the famous "Nor-Easters" Our winters will probably seem rather dull to someone coming from the north-east. Just be prepared for a lot of cloudy drizzly weather from about Thanksgiving through Easter, then it typically clears back up again and gets more pleasent.

Attrill · 10-30-2007, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kungfulkoder

Attrill - Is 30-40k really base pay for CS grads? The national average starting salary is 55k. I realize places like the valley might throw the average off a bit due to larger wages and even larger costs of living, but I still figured 45-55k+ would be reasonable for a larger city like Chicago. It has a moderate increase in living expenses over rochester and according to a CNNMoney calculator the salary difference for equivalent living standards is about 5k. That would put it about in line with what some of the companies have been offering here.

If it makes a difference, my focus has been moreso on applicaiton development vs web (some PHP and RoR). Two areas I'm lacking in experience is a lot of time on P/SQL and .Net framework development. I have some P/SQL, but could use more. That is why I am taking a more advanced database class next quarter is just for that reason. We learn on Sun machines mostly here in my department, and a lot of my side projects have been muti-platform focused (own a mac and a PC) so that means java, C/C++ with cross platform compilation script, ruby/python/perl, etc. So I can use the .Net framework on my own at side projects, but it is only used in one or two specific courses so exposure here is lower than some other places.

Application and backend programming will definitely earn you more - in the 40-50K range right out of school. It can be higher (50-60K) if you've had some professional experience (internships, summer jobs, etc.). I have seen some people making as little as 32K doing grunt level SysAdmin work for large server farms in the burbs and other people making as high as 60K doing more complex work (i.e. certified Domino programmers). In the past I've usually budgeted about 45K for finding recently graduated open source programmers (primarily Python and Django) with a variety of *nix and open source experience.

grapico · 10-31-2007, 10:37 AM

35-45... are u on dice? that would probably jump if you are good though...u could easily start off in mid 40s.

manchesterUnited · 03-05-2008, 11:04 AM

Hey, sorry this is a bit late, but I know of several people with offers in Chicago for full-time software engineering jobs. I've seen 58k, 60k, and 65k. All with solid benefits & signing bonuses.

30-40k for development is low. It might be alright for basic front-end, but if you have a bachelors in CS you should be well beyond front-end skills.