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Everyone wants the good old days ... but with cell phones and the internet.
Time marches on.
you missed my point, too, manigault. it's not about "the good old days" (such never existed); it's about being local, not some generic product of the national and international economy and culture.
My real question was basically this:
When Chicago (and every American city) are basically Generic, Fungible, Anywheresville, USA......have we all lost?
I can remember living on the South Side as a child (yeah Jeffrey Manor) back in the 50's I was astounded when during just the right atmospheric conditions we would pick up Channel 13 on the TV from Rockford or Channel 4 or 12 from Milwaukee. It was like seeing the other end of the world to me. Back then we didn't worry about traveling the neighborhood walking or by bike nor taking the CTA bus downtown with just a friend to have some fun spending the day. I don't think it's the same today. If you survived the trip it would be a blessing, but by no means a guarantee. It IS a different world we live in. I don't blame Chicago. I'm probably a minority of 1 to say I felt although it wasn't so called "Politically Correct" the old Mayor Daley was amazing. Things ran like a fine tuned watch in Chicago because he didn't deal with bureaucracy or taking votes on what needed to get done. IT GOT DONE! In some ways it worked back then. By the late 60's it was just a point of contention with all the liberality coming on the scene. Oh well. It was a pretty cool place to grow up.
Anyone been to a Von Mauer's? Reminds me of Marshall Fields & have Midwestern roots. Von Maur About Us
If the profits justified the expense, it would be cool if they purchased the downtown location from Macy's with the rights to use Marshall Field's name at that location. Von Mauer at Marshall Field Building. I know it is still day-dreaming, but a more "realistic" sort.
Boy do I HATE folks romanticizing the so-called good old days. (And for the record plenty of people here in NYC do it too.) All that hazy nostalgia covers up a lot of bad s**t. Yeah, Chicago was really really great back when...
--The slaugherhouses stank up half the south side...
--People regularly got hit by buses 'cause they had to wait for them in the middle of the street
--Cars regulalry got into accidents on LSD's infamous "ess: curve...
--Neighborhoods were so rigidly segregated that black people literally feared for their lives to walk into certain ones
--Stores were so provincial even middle class people would leave for New York to find stylish clothes
--Aside from the big institutions that every city has--opera, art museum, symphony--there was nothing like an arts scene at all. And no neighborhood really supported one.
--All those wonderful newspapers came up with outrageous lies and misstatements just to outdo each other, and facts be damned. (Think the movie Chicago or the 'Dewey Beats Truman" headline in the Trib )
--When instead of having some of the most forward looking chefs in the world, the average Chicagoan was satisfied with hot dogs,steak, ribs.
--Chicago was mostly satisfied with being "flyover country." And in some ways deserved it.
Don't romanticize the past. It was different. It wasn't necessarily better. And in a lot of ways it was worse.
Boy do I HATE folks romanticizing the so-called good old days. (And for the record plenty of people here in NYC do it too.) All that hazy nostalgia covers up a lot of bad s**t. Yeah, Chicago was really really great back when...
--The slaugherhouses stank up half the south side...
--People regularly got hit by buses 'cause they had to wait for them in the middle of the street
--Cars regulalry got into accidents on LSD's infamous "ess: curve...
--Neighborhoods were so rigidly segregated that black people literally feared for their lives to walk into certain ones
--Stores were so provincial even middle class people would leave for New York to find stylish clothes
--Aside from the big institutions that every city has--opera, art museum, symphony--there was nothing like an arts scene at all. And no neighborhood really supported one.
--All those wonderful newspapers came up with outrageous lies and misstatements just to outdo each other, and facts be damned. (Think the movie Chicago or the 'Dewey Beats Truman" headline in the Trib )
--When instead of having some of the most forward looking chefs in the world, the average Chicagoan was satisfied with hot dogs,steak, ribs.
--Chicago was mostly satisfied with being "flyover country." And in some ways deserved it.
Don't romanticize the past. It was different. It wasn't necessarily better. And in a lot of ways it was worse.
The stockyards and packing houses provided work for thousands and untold wealth in taxes for the city.
I don't remember ever waiting for the bus in the middle of the street; streetcars maybe but they were a just before my time.
My father was a very well dressed middle class guy and managed to do so without going to New York.
Segregation wasn't bad for me unless one is speaking of segregated white neighborhoods changing into segregated black ones.
Being satisfied with simple food is virtuous not a fault.
There were (and are) lying newspapers everywhere. In any event the Daily News was a good paper.
I don't care if tastemakers consider Chicago "flyover country".
Last edited by Irishtom29; 12-07-2011 at 10:13 AM..
For better or worse -- and I can appreciate opinions on this either way -- Chicago was a big blue-collar town once, but that city is gone and won't ever come back. And many of the things that are attached to that blue-collar heritage are gone too. I think that this is what's behind what a lot of people mean when they bemoan the loss of "old" Chicago dominated by local institutions.
The city will make its future more and more as a white-collar town, with all that implies, including hipster-filled arts districts, fashionable clothes, gourmet dinining, and a much greater emphasis on education, 'cause you can't droput anymore and find work on the line somewhere.
We've been going through this in NYC for years and Chicago has too. Like I say, I can see both sides. There are bad things about this, but a lot of good things too. How gracefully its ultimately accomplished though, is still mainly up to those of us who live in the cities we love.
For better or worse -- and I can appreciate opinions on this either way -- Chicago was a big blue-collar town once, but that city is gone and won't ever come back.
A study of history teaches to avoid the term "never".
In any event Chicago is still largely a blue collar town, it's just that modern blue collar workers aren't as prosperous as those of a generation ago. The white collar workers are next on the hit list and are seeing the effects of hammering now. Blue collar jobs to China and white collar to India. Bosses have cunningly set the stage for lower expectations by allowing white collar workers to LOWER THEMSELVES in status by encouraging blue collar dress and poor grooming in the office (disguised as "office casual" and "creative class edge"). If your name ain't over the door you're disposable, a nobody. As white collar prospects decline the middle class takes it's solace in granite counter tops, trendy restaurants and art; things that were of far less interest to the same class 50 years ago.
Have a nice day.
Last edited by Irishtom29; 12-07-2011 at 12:29 PM..
Boy do I HATE folks romanticizing the so-called good old days. (And for the record plenty of people here in NYC do it too.) All that hazy nostalgia covers up a lot of bad s**t. Yeah, Chicago was really really great back when...
--People regularly got hit by buses 'cause they had to wait for them in the middle of the street Don't romanticize the past. It was different. It wasn't necessarily better. And in a lot of ways it was worse.
I actually remember this. The # 22 Clark street bus comes to mind. Had to pick it up on whatever street it was downtown in the MIDDLE of the street to head back home to the Near North Side as a kid in the seventies.
For better or worse -- and I can appreciate opinions on this either way -- Chicago was a big blue-collar town once, but that city is gone and won't ever come back. And many of the things that are attached to that blue-collar heritage are gone too. I think that this is what's behind what a lot of people mean when they bemoan the loss of "old" Chicago dominated by local institutions.
The city will make its future more and more as a white-collar town, with all that implies, including hipster-filled arts districts, fashionable clothes, gourmet dinining, and a much greater emphasis on education, 'cause you can't droput anymore and find work on the line somewhere.
We've been going through this in NYC for years and Chicago has too. Like I say, I can see both sides. There are bad things about this, but a lot of good things too. How gracefully its ultimately accomplished though, is still mainly up to those of us who live in the cities we love.
I am glad you brought up the fact that other cities, even New York City has gone through this same process, it is not something unique to Chicago or the midwest. I think the greater point is that cities like New York City and Chicago are big enough to have the best of both worlds. Honestly I am only 30 years old and never actually lived through these times but I am nostalgic for the stories my parents and grandparents told me about how Chicago was back in the day, in particular the rich neighborhood life and the density that existed in the city back then, that being said I am glad I live in the modern day Chicago for several reasons but I wish the good elements of the past that we lost would return or some variation thereof.
Also I think the term "flyover country" as it applies to Chicago if anything is more of a contemporary thing as opposed to a historic one. I agree that an argument can be made that Chicago is more cultured today but I also think Chicago had a bigger reputation in the nation as a whole in 1950 than today, I don't think people used the term "fly-over country" back then. In 1950 Chicago was clearly the second largest city in the country by a wide margin and after New York City had the biggest reputation as far as being a "big city" is concerned. If anything Chicago's reputation diminished with the rise of contemporary celebrity culture and the rise of Los Angeles which created the bi-coastal mentality. I know LA existed in 1950 and was already pretty big but back then it was still viewed as a far off place where movies are made to most people east of the Mississippi, before the age of common jet air travel Chicago would be much more familiar and accessible to a New Yorker than LA. I know celebrity culture existed in the 1950's but it expressed itself differently, just think of the I Love Lucy episodes where going to Los Angeles was a big deal to New Yorkers like them, today it wouldn't be. In 1950 many would think it very strange if you said New York City had more in common with Los Angeles than Chicago but today many think it is the opposite due to NYC and LA having more in common as far as pop celebrity culture and mass media in contemporary life. This is starting to change with Chicago in recent decades with the city becoming more cultured in the contemporary sense of the word but it is very misguided to say that this is the first time Chicago has been recognized by people on the coasts, if anything in 1950 NYC and Chicago probably looked down upon the "wild wild west" together.
Really Chicago's relationship with NYC has been a bit circular, in the 19th century, think 1893 exposition we were looked down upon, by 1950 Chicago was solidified as a city and was probably lumped in with much of the eastern half of the US, then in the later half of the 20th century Chicago got lumped in with the rest of the Midwest as "flyover country" and now as Chicago is gentrifying it is getting discovered again by New Yorkers. These are all generalizations of course but I think it is the accurate general historical trend. The bi-coastal mentality I think is a total fabrication of recent decades.
Last edited by chicago103; 12-07-2011 at 01:54 PM..
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