Do you think there are any regrets at the U of C for dropping major college sports? (Chicago: real estate, schools)

[edsg25]

In 1939, U of C president Robert Hutchins eliminated the university's football program. Chicago, a real power of the early 20th century, had fallen on hard time and Hutchins was convinced that there was no place for big time athletics at a school that prided itself on its academics, its research, and its serious nature.

Less than a decade later, Chicago was out of the Big Ten all together.

Was quitting the Big Ten a good thing for the U of C? I would think most arguments would say "yes", perhaps even a resounding "yes".

Supporting two private university football programs is tough.Chicago was close to unique in being a metropolitan area with two private universities, Chicago and Northwestern, in the 1930s that were playing playing big time football. The only other place I can think of that came close was D/FW with SMU and TCU. But those two cities hadn't really grown together as one back then.

LA (UCLA, USC) and the Bay Area (Cal, Stanford) each had two teams; but in those cases, one was public, the other private.

And I would have to say that Chicago would have a most difficult time supporting both the Maroons and Wildcats today. indeed, Chicago struggles with just the Wildcats. This is not prime college football territory.

But here's the deal that gets me interested:

big time athletics is high profile and spells recognition dividends to the institutions with the programs. Northwestern has seen a spike in interest ad applications of high powered students based on football success since the mid 1990s (including a Rose Bowl appearance).

Chicago swims in the same high level academics of institutions like NU, Stanford, and Duke.....all three in big time athletics, all 3 getting high profile from them.

Indeed, for all its spectacular reputation, the U of C doesn't get the full recognition it deserves because it missed that big time athletics spike.

Should things be that way? No. But it's a reality.

So here's the deal.....is there a downside of the U of C being out of the Big Ten and, assuming the unlikely, if fan support could be there today for both Chicago and Northwestern, would the U of C pick up some benefits if it were magically allowed to join the Big Ten?

Are there some positives in so doing, despite all the negatives that I know are there against it?

[Manigault]

First of all, you have to understand that the U of C is primarily grad students from Division I schools: They've already had their fill of big time athletics. Secondly, not much of the Ivy League worries about their sports teams; why should Chicago?

Chicago is mostly graduate schools (and pre-graduate school students) so the lack of athletics is not a big issue. It competes with graduate programs elsewhere, not with undergraduate programs or 'quality of student life' issues.

Full disclosure: I met the Heisman trophy winner from the U when I was at Chicago, Jay Berwanger! He was a real nice guy.

[edsg25]

Originally Posted by Manigault

First of all, you have to understand that the U of C is primarily grad students from Division I schools: They've already had their fill of big time athletics. Secondly, not much of the Ivy League worries about their sports teams; why should Chicago?

Chicago is mostly graduate schools (and pre-graduate school students) so the lack of athletics is not a big issue. It competes with graduate programs elsewhere, not with undergraduate programs or 'quality of student life' issues.

Full disclosure: I met the Heisman trophy winner from the U when I was at Chicago, Jay Berwanger! He was a real nice guy.

good post. and i agree.

But while the Ivy League doesn't worry about sports teams, as you note, they are also in the unique position that that very association (the Ivy League) projects the institutions in an incomparable way.

Sure the Ivies are known for their academics, but that sports overlay and membership in the league pays dividends.

Chicago, being out in the Middle West, far enough removed from the east coast, finds no comparable association. Chicago's conference includes its own group of quality institutions like Wash U, Emory, NYU.....but that association does not register with anybody.

[ajolotl]

It's a good question. The U of C is actually aggressively growing its undergraduate student body -- now it is over 5K I think and plans are to make it another 1K bigger or so. There are more undergrads than non-professional-school grad students at this point. Lack of D1 sports is definitely the major reason that outside of the NPR crowd people in the US are often left scratching their head when one mentions U of C -- confusing it with UIC, never hearing of it, whatever. I've actually found that in Europe and Asia the school is much better known than in, say, Skokie. And I'm not exaggerating.

It's also clear that in the last five years or so the U of C has taken to marketing itself more like a regular business. Application rates seem to have soared ridiculously, and admissions rates have plummeted to elite levels. I'm certain there is a business-minded person or two around campus licking their chomps at the thought of re-instituting big time college sports, but I very seriously doubt it would or could ever happen. The culture is too far removed from this mentality and it's been too long. They'll have to survive without it in my opinion.

[ajolotl]

I'll also add that the relative social irrelevance of the south side in general and hyde park in particular is probably reason number two for its obscurity. That's definitely on a path to change -- whether you like it or not things like the Hyatt and Whole Foods coming to Hyde Park mark a clear turning of the tide in terms of the types of businesses that are willing to move down here. I'm certain its just the tip of the iceberg. Looking at the plans for Harper Court the new retail is pretty impressive across the board.

[edsg25]

Originally Posted by ajolotl

It's also clear that in the last five years or so the U of C has taken to marketing itself more like a regular business. Application rates seem to have soared ridiculously,.

I believe it was Chicago magazine that had a major piece on this subject earlier this year.

[edsg25]

Originally Posted by ajolotl

I'll also add that the relative social irrelevance of the south side in general and hyde park in particular is probably reason number two for its obscurity. That's definitely on a path to change -- whether you like it or not things like the Hyatt and Whole Foods coming to Hyde Park mark a clear turning of the tide in terms of the types of businesses that are willing to move down here. I'm certain its just the tip of the iceberg. Looking at the plans for Harper Court the new retail is pretty impressive across the board.

and even a bad economy is not going to stop the "fill in" of the conversion of the South Side lakefront from McCPl to Hyde Park into a desirable area. I think that one is a no brainer.

indeed the very economic mess we are in and the life style changes we are no needing to make to get by on less adds extremely high value to prime urban real estate in the South Side whose time has come. Hyde Park is poised to be a part of that. And again with just my speculation, I think the same factors of outward gentrification will spread from Hyde Park into South Shore, as well.

and, ajolotl, what you mention about whole foods and hyatt going to happen....isn't that just part of the trend that the already existing TI store exhibits?

[ole69]

double post

[ole69]

Originally Posted by Manigault

First of all, you have to understand that the U of C is primarily grad students from Division I schools: They've already had their fill of big time athletics. Secondly, not much of the Ivy League worries about their sports teams; why should Chicago?

Chicago is mostly graduate schools (and pre-graduate school students) so the lack of athletics is not a big issue. It competes with graduate programs elsewhere, not with undergraduate programs or 'quality of student life' issues.

Full disclosure: I met the Heisman trophy winner from the U when I was at Chicago, Jay Berwanger! He was a real nice guy.

U of C is in not Ivy League. And plenty of legit Ivy League schools care about their sports programs. You'd be surprised how many NFL players come from Harvard. (Ryan Fitzpatrick, our own Dan Jiggetts, etc.). The sportscaster Jim Brown was a basketball star at Harvard.

Harvard and Brown take their heavyweight rowing very seriously. Columbia is known for fencing. Etc.

But yeah, U of C couldn't care less about athletics.

[ole69]

Originally Posted by ajolotl

Application rates seem to have soared ridiculously, and admissions rates have plummeted to elite levels.

Their admission rate was always at an "elite" level