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Explain Queens and Brooklyn then? Their signals progress just fine as well. Just like out here in the BURBS where we are under IDOT rule. Sorry, but it's 2010 not 1960. Signals can be programmed to keep traffic moving, it's done all over the country EXCEPT here.
Here's a little secret for you: the lights on the major arteries in Chicago are timed to prioritize inbound traffic during the first half of the day and outbound traffic during the second half. Try driving in each direction down, say, Western Avenue at 10pm or 4am when there's light traffic and see which direction is more or less interrupted by lights. The prioritization becomes a lot more obvious.
But this isn't the suburbs and it sure as hell isn't Kansas City or Lanexa. The sheer volume and density of traffic plus the fact that it's just as heavy north/south as east/west means you're never going to get a continual flow of traffic during rush hour like you can in places where it's easy to direct traffic along a small handful of major arteries or mostly along a single axis.
Here's a little secret for you: the lights on the major arteries in Chicago are timed to prioritize inbound traffic during the morning and outbound traffic in the afternoon. But this isn't the suburbs and it sure as hell isn't Kansas City or Lanexa. The sheer volume and density of traffic plus the fact that it's just as heavy north/south as east/west means you're never going to get a continual flow of traffic like you can in places where it's easy to direct traffic along a small handful of major arteries or mostly along a single axis.
Many of our signals still turn on the green left turn arrows for no reason and here's a SECRET for you, I have talked to a number of traffic engineers over at CDOT and they have ALL told me it's due to malfunctioning loops and they just don't know where the loops are until someone calls it in. Another secret for you is that traffic in the burbs on most days is three times as bad as it is in the city as NOBODY out here walks or uses public transit, we all drive in our personal cars place to place, that said we have streets like Cicero out here handling over 60K cars a day, Harlem pushin 50K a day, La Grange is far over capacity at 50K a day in Orland Park while streets like Damen are at from what CDOT told me about 30K a day yet have the same design as many streets out here do and what do you know, I can make it through 5 or 6 lights in a row out here vs. Chicago's 1 or 2 if you speed you rear end off. And that said, proves right there something needs to be done, "speed your rear end off" Chicago's signal set up encourages aggressive driving, folks race off one green light to beat the next light which is about the change to red. That's real intelligent in a metro area with what? 7 million people? Instead of timing signals to progress with the flow of traffic and repair the vehicle detector loops to allow more green time, we have signals randomly changing all over the place, green left turn arrows holding on for no reason not allowing through traffic through, and one ways all turning green to red at the same time encouraging folks to look at streets like Jackson as if it were the INDY 500. And here is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. This guy even makes fun of it about it being like you're in a race. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMSCh...eature=related There is no reason those signals can not be coordinated.
You're seriously comparing Damen Avenue to La Grange Road? There's your problem right there.
"Let's see... one is a two-lane street through neighborhoods of up to 25,000ppsm, the other is a four-lane thoroughfare with dedicated turn lanes through a low-density suburb... gee, I wonder why traffic flows so much better on the suburban road..."
You're seriously comparing Damen Avenue to La Grange Road? There's your problem right there.
"Let's see... one is a two-lane street through neighborhoods of up to 25,000ppsm, the other is a four-lane thoroughfare with dedicated turn lanes through a low-density suburb... gee, I wonder why traffic flows so much better on the suburban road..."
Um ever hear of traffic counts? You can look them up right on IDOT's website. If La Grange is handling 45-50K cars a day and as I stated Damen is at 30K a day or let's use Pulaski at a comparable 40K a day and Pulaski is 4 lanes with a middle turn lane and La Grange is 4 lanes with one middle left turn lane. How is it then that La Grange can keep traffic moving smoothly while Pulaski has everyone at a basic standstill or poking along one red light to the next? How is that? Or Look at Cicero the moment you cross over from CDOT land to IDOT land what do you know, traffic begins moving steadily. Did Cicero change? No, did volumes change? Ya in fact the amount of cars on the road went UP when you cross over into Oak Lawn, yet the roadway begins moving steadier. Hmmmm what caused that do you think?
How exactly is it that Brooklyn with MORE traffic and people per square mile can keep their traffic moving so well while ours as seen here creeps along one red light to the next? Oh ya it's called coordinated signals. Just about all other cities are doing it perhaps Chicago could try to at least come into the 1990s at the very least as NYC for instance did this back when Rudy was in office. Heck even Bloomington Normal had this down to a science of having the lights sequenced so speeders and straglers were punished with red lights while folks doing the posted speed limit got green lights all the way down their path or just about at least.
Anyhow I'm not on here to argue that coordinated signals are the way to go, the proofs out there see USDOT, Federal Highway Authority, other cities that have already implemented this, the post was what we can do as residents to help improve quality of life in Chicago. If you want to sit back and say well nothing can be done, then you know what? You are part of the problem because trust me, always something can be done to make life anywhere better. There's always room for improvement. Sitting back and BMCing about this is dumb or nothing can be done only leads further to our traffic problem here. Traffic COULD move better and that's what the initial post was all about. Other cities are whooping our butt in this department.
Um ever hear of traffic counts? You can look them up right on IDOT's website. If La Grange is handling 45-50K cars a day and as I stated Damen is at 30K a day or let's use Pulaski at a comparable 40K a day and Pulaski is 4 lanes with a middle turn lane and La Grange is 4 lanes with one middle left turn lane. How is it then that La Grange can keep traffic moving smoothly while Pulaski has everyone at a basic standstill or poking along one red light to the next? How is that? Or Look at Cicero the moment you cross over from CDOT land to IDOT land what do you know, traffic begins moving steadily. Did Cicero change? No, did volumes change? Ya in fact the amount of cars on the road went UP when you cross over into Oak Lawn, yet the roadway begins moving steadier. Hmmmm what caused that do you think?
I have never experienced this magical transformation of traffic flow after crossing over the city limits, so maybe there's something super-special about the south suburbs that allows this to happen down there that doesn't happen anywhere else. But I doubt it.
Why does La Grange flow better than Cicero? I'm guessing maybe because La Grange Road flows through anything from low- and medium-density suburbs to huge swaths of forest preserve and has far fewer intersections with major thoroughfares; whereas Cicero moves through anything from a high-density urban environment to medium-high-density urban and suburban environment and intersects other major thoroughfares as frequently as every half-mile. Oh, and it also carries traffic to and from a major airport. Is it really that big a mystery why traffic flows better on La Grange?
How exactly is it that Brooklyn with MORE traffic and people per square mile can keep their traffic moving so well while ours as seen here creeps along one red light to the next? Oh ya it's called coordinated signals. Just about all other cities are doing it perhaps Chicago could try to at least come into the 1990s at the very least as NYC for instance did this back when Rudy was in office. Heck even Bloomington Normal had this down to a science of having the lights sequenced so speeders and straglers were punished with red lights while folks doing the posted speed limit got green lights all the way down their path or just about at least.
When did they move Queens Boulevard to Brooklyn? And you're comparing a six-to-sixteen lane highway to a 4-lane surface street?
I'm starting to think you're not very clear on the concept of "apples to apples."
I have never experienced this magical transformation of traffic flow after crossing over the city limits, so maybe there's something super-special about the south suburbs that allows this to happen down there that doesn't happen anywhere else. But I doubt it.
Why does La Grange flow better than Cicero? I'm guessing maybe because La Grange Road flows through anything from low- and medium-density suburbs to huge swaths of forest preserve and has far fewer intersections with major thoroughfares; whereas Cicero moves through anything from a high-density urban environment to medium-high-density urban and suburban environment and intersects other major thoroughfares as frequently as every half-mile. Oh, and it also carries traffic to and from a major airport. Is it really that big a mystery why traffic flows better on La Grange?
I'm done. If you are to thick to understand that coordinated signals lead to a 20% improvement in traffic flow on ANY roadway then I'm sorry, I'm just at a loss. Some people just don't get it obviously. Anyhow have a nice day.
When did they move Queens Boulevard to Brooklyn? And you're comparing a six-to-sixteen lane highway to a 4-lane surface street?
I'm starting to think you're not very clear on the concept of "apples to apples."
Really? hmmm that started out as a 6 lane highway and when was the last time you were on Cicero? 1970? It's 6 lanes as well. Take a lil trip away from your desk.
Really? hmmm that started out as a 6 lane highway and when was the last time you were on Cicero? 1970? It's 6 lanes as well. Take a lil trip away from your desk.
The last time I was on Cicero was yesterday afternoon. Very little of it is 6 lanes. Some of it is as narrow as 2 lanes. Additionally, the street in your video isn't Cicero, it's North Avenue. Furthermore, to say the lights are "uncoordinated" assumes they were traveling in the same direction as the prioritized flow when we have no idea what time of day this was filmed. Finally, I wonder how much more fluid this video would look if it were time-lapsed like your other "apples to apples" videos.
Take a lil' trip away from whatever you're smoking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYrules
I'm done. If you are to thick to understand that coordinated signals lead to a 20% improvement in traffic flow on ANY roadway then I'm sorry, I'm just at a loss. Some people just don't get it obviously. Anyhow have a nice day.
I have never once argued against the idea that coordinated signals improve traffic flow. If you can't read for basic comprehension or understand how the environment through which a road traverses can effect how well it flows, or even identify streets and their locations correctly, then I'm sorry, I too am at a loss.
You have a great day too.
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