Controversy over ETHS topping New Trier on Newsweek list (Evanston: sales, school rankings) - Chicago Suburbs - Illinois (IL) - City-Data Forum

US-Traveller · 06-22-2009, 03:40 AM

Link to article: ETHS tops New Trier on Newsweek list; schools dispute method :: News :: PIONEER PRESS :: Evanston Review (http://www.pioneerlocal.com/evanston/news/1627365,evanston-topschools-061809-s1.article - broken link)

chet everett · 06-22-2009, 08:24 AM

Not a surprise. The value of the Newsweek rating has been minimal, the methodology is weak. US News has a MUCH better system and only 'ranks' the schools in the tippy top group numerically, all the rest go in to "silver" or "bronze". Much better system, as it acknowledges that some people will choose a more urban school or a larger school or a school that has some other factor that is subjectively negative.

The Newsweek "single data point" is ridiculous. The mere fact that is terribly easy to manipulate ought to shame Newsweek into doing a better job, but with suffering in the world of magazine sales that is unlikely...

ajolotl · 06-22-2009, 08:46 AM

The ranking metric mentioned in the article is the dumbest I've ever heard. And I've heard some pretty brain-dead ones over the years. It should all be ignored as total nonsense.

US-Traveller · 06-22-2009, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chet everett

Not a surprise. The value of the Newsweek rating has been minimal, the methodology is weak. US News has a MUCH better system and only 'ranks' the schools in the tippy top group numerically, all the rest go in to "silver" or "bronze". Much better system, as it acknowledges that some people will choose a more urban school or a larger school or a school that has some other factor that is subjectively negative.

The Newsweek "single data point" is ridiculous. The mere fact that is terribly easy to manipulate ought to shame Newsweek into doing a better job, but with suffering in the world of magazine sales that is unlikely...

Clearly Evanston has manipulated it.

Anthera · 06-22-2009, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by US-Traveller

Clearly Evanston has manipulated it.

I wouldn't necessarily blame Evanston. Its just a bad survey.

edsg25 · 06-22-2009, 06:15 PM

oh, brother. haven't we suffered enough with the hack job that USN&WR did on colleges to have to endure Newsweek attempting the laughable task of actually ranking high schools across the country. give me a break.

kindrakindra · 06-22-2009, 06:27 PM

I just don't think it's possible to rank high schools - too many variables. I do think it's possible to rank colleges, however, and US News does a much better job on that. US News high school rankings are also stupid.

I will say this - measuring AP scores is somewhat bizarre, but I don't think ETHS manipulated it. My friend's kid took AP Psych at his high school and found it quite difficult. He is going to an excellent college and pretty much got all As in high school.

Lookout Kid · 06-22-2009, 09:19 PM

I just love to watch those New Trier booster idiots squirm. This is the kind of thing that will drive them nuts, bad methodology or not!

chet everett · 06-23-2009, 07:59 AM

Any one who does not believe it is possible to rank high schools is either blind to very obvious differences or has some ulterior motive.

Just about all high schoolers take the ACT and SAT. These are VERY well designed instruments to measure how students in different schools perform on written tests that are valuable to college admissions. Further, the College Board invests a LOT of money and time in the AP program and reports a tremendous amount of data on these tests.

Additional FEDERALLY MANDATED information about the demographics of high schools is quite reliable.

US News does an EXCELLENT job of using of ALL THIS DATA to group high schools into gold, silver and bronze. Among each group it is entirely possible that parents and students could legitimately choose one school over another, because there will ALWAYS differences and some people have preferences.

Newsweek is being LAZY and somewhat sensationalistic in attempting to rank so many schools by a singular piece of data, yet even then I do think it has some value IF it does motivate more high schools to not only give more students to higher level classes BUT ALSO to take the steps necessary to ensure that those students have a high degree of success in challenging classes...

kindrakindra · 06-23-2009, 09:23 AM

Chet, let's agree to disagree. Public high schools, for the most part, do not have admissions standards like colleges. People in wealthy towns have good schools with high test scores, because of greater parental involvement, availability of SAT/ACT courses and tutors, etc.

High schools vary widely in size and course offerings. It's impossible to compare a school with 500 students versus 3000 students. US NEWS acknowledges such differences in its college rankings, as they have two different lists, universities and colleges. It's high school list does not account for such differences.

As I mentioned in a previous post, I can call into question all of US NEWS methodology in ranking high schools because Dover High School in New Jersey should not make any lists. The fact that it got a silver is outrageous and some of the best high schools in New Jersey aren't on the list either.

My favorite way to compare high schools is to examine the percentage of kids attending a four year college.