Berwyn YES or NO... fill me in!!! (Chicago, Naperville: transporting, renters)

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by MikeM1

thanks lookout kid, my main questions I suppose is how is the area by the intersection of 18th Street & Oak Park Ave.? And how is the area by Roosevelt Rd. & Oak Park Ave.? Fortunately, from what I've read from other members on this site, there are few if any shootings in Berwyn, while parts of Aurora have many.

18th and Oak Park is in the middle of the often maligned "apartment belt" we discussed earlier. It's not the horrific ghetto some describe it to be but it's almost 100% rentals in that area. Quality of life will be directly related to the quality of tenants in your building. Some landlords carefully screen their tenants but others, not so much, and not much good usually comes out of that.

Roosevelt and Oak Park is good. You'll border Oak Park and are close to the Green Line, Friendly Tap, FitzGerald's, Buona Beef, etc. Given my druthers, I'd take that area due to its proximity to the "L" and the increasing amenities on Roosevelt Rd.

If you're looking at apartments (sounds like you are) you really ought to contact the folks at the Berwyn Housing Center. They'll show you around the different areas and tell you all about 'em, all for free...

About » Berwyn Housing Center

[Rusty_Shackleford]

Per capita income in Berwyn declined from 1990 to 2000. Almost all areas of Chicagoland where that occurred were areas in decline, with 'white flight' and rising crime. Non-Hispanic whites left Berwyn that decade at a rate that suggests white flight. Not that this is necessarily a bad thing, or that Berwyn is going downhill. But this is what the census statistics say.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by Rusty_Shackleford

Per capita income in Berwyn declined from 1990 to 2000. Almost all areas of Chicagoland where that occurred were areas in decline, with 'white flight' and rising crime.

That could be true as a general matter but Berwyn was unique in the 1990s in that it had a very old population that was either dying off or moving because they could no longer maintain their house. The elderly were replaced by Latinos in large numbers during that decade. I wasn't here at that time but I sadly suspect that there probably was indeed some white flight, but I doubt it was like Austin in the 1960s or anything. Any flight has probably stabilized by this point, as most of the people who were going to leave for this reason left a long time ago.

As you say, Census figures show a slight decrease in adjusted per capita income from '90-'00 (about $1.5k in dollars adjusted to '07 values). But the city’s population went from 43k to 54k during the same time period. I’m no Census expert but my suspicion is that at least some of the decrease can be attributed to the replacement of single person elderly households with working class families. A decent chunk of the additional 11k people were probably children under 18, which would have put downward pressure on the per capita income figure. On this note, Berwyn's median household income increased from ’90-‘00 about 5% in dollars adjusted to '07.

ISP crime statistics actually show a decrease in crime in the community from 1996 (3,660/100k and 1,601 index crimes) to 2006 (3,018/100k and 1,552 index crimes). So the Latino influx did not bring with it a rise in crime, at least per the numbers (perception is another issue).

Still though, all and all, the community definitely has to focus on attracting higher income professionals to maintain diversity. Recently, it seems to be doing that visibly more, which is a good thing.

[Berwynite]

BJT83,

First of all what I was saying was that the tennis courts were full that day and these 5-7 year olds were riding their bike and scooter in front of the people while they were playing tennis. My husband and daughter were also playing. They had to stop several times to avoid hitting them. The parents were right outside and never said a word to them.

Secondly, I know a lot more about Berwyn than I have posted. Once I had to go look for my son because he did not come home all night. I reported him missing to the police and I went looking for him at a house one of his friends told me about around 28th & Ridgeland. Some boys told me he had just left but the mother told me he was never there. I told the mother who was at the apartment that I was going to call the police because I knew she was letting my son stay there and there were gangbangers inside. I could see them but I had not clue how many were there. This woman also had teenage daughters in the house. My mother and sister went with me. We then went outside to my car and waited for the police and about 20 gangbangers (no joke) fled the apartment to their various vehicles and on foot. My sister and mother were in disbelief that many people were in the apartment. Prior to that my son got into trouble with her son and had to go to court. The mother was also charged with contributing to the delinquency of minors. My husband and I both went and were extremely upset with my son. The boy's mother was there and ran into one of her friends who was there for her son. They were both laughing and talking about how her other son stole a car. My husband and I were in shock. We couldn't have been more embarrased and this woman thought what her kids were doing was a joke. I actually live by St. Leonards which is pretty quiet but I have noticed things are changing for the worse. I've hoped for the last 10 years that Berwyn would improve. We have such great resources like the Metra, I-55, Eisenhower plus we are pretty close to Chicago but for some reason we just can't break out. I am not trying to bash Berwyn just telling about my experiences.

[BJT83]

Originally Posted by Berwynite

First of all what I was saying was that the tennis courts were full that day and these 5-7 year olds were riding their bike and scooter in front of the people while they were playing tennis. My husband and daughter were also playing. They had to stop several times to avoid hitting them. The parents were right outside and never said a word to them.

I don't doubt this story, I was just trying to point out that this happens everywhere and kids not listening does not equal the downfall of a particular town. It's annoying, but not unique to Berwyn.

[Dariusz]

I listen to a Police Scanner every night at work, I always have it hopping through the Chicago area channels and Berwyn always comes up with a lot of serious crime.. gang shootings, robberies, batteries, muggings, etc... On the 4th of July people at the park were shooting fireworks at police officers. I suggest buying a house in a different area. The house value will just continue falling in that area until the crime is taken down. Two of my friends live in Berwyn and they both want out but they can't afford to leave. One is a Latino male in his 30's with children and the other is a White male in his 60s with a wife. They have both told me about the crime they have witnessed there. I work for a private detectives agency so I always keep up on crime throughout the Chicago area.

I forgot to include that my friends son was beat up by Puerto Rican gang members very recently. He was hospitalized in serious condition. The kid wasn't doing anything, he was beaten because he was Mexican. Now the mother had to leave her job to watch over her son while the father picked up a second job just to make ends meet. I am considering helping them relocate to a safer area closer to where the father works.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by Dariusz

I listen to a Police Scanner every night at work, I always have it hopping through the Chicago area channels and Berwyn always comes up with a lot of serious crime.. gang shootings, robberies, batteries, muggings, etc... On the 4th of July people at the park were shooting fireworks at police officers. I.

I think this is the second time in this thread I've asked you this but where and when were these gang shootings? Not saying you're wrong but to my knowledge there have been no shootings in Berwyn this year, so I'm curious on the details of this. I also didn't hear of people shooting fireworks at police officers this 4th of July. At which park did this occur?

Everyone's entitled to an opinion but as a bit of advice, but most people on here appreciate some facts when you start talking about specific crimes.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by Berwynite

BJT83,

Once I had to go look for my son because he did not come home all night. I told the mother who was at the apartment that I was going to call the police because I knew she was letting my son stay there and there were gangbangers inside. Prior to that my son got into trouble with her son and had to go to court.

Sorry to hear about this. I've not experienced anything like what you describe but I don't have a troubled child either. It's easy for some kids to be drawn into the wrong crowd, and maybe Morton West has a few more of those influences than some other schools might. But regardless of where you are, this has to be watched, as BJT implies. I know plenty of parents who are happy with the school system in Berwyn, though they tend to be very involved parents.

[Humboldt1]

What kind of parents are happy with the schools in Berwyn? Involved or not parents, the schools in Berwyn are challenging.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by Dariusz

I suggest buying a house in a different area. The house value will just continue falling in that area until the crime is taken down. Two of my friends live in Berwyn and they both want out but they can't afford to leave. One is a Latino male in his 30's with children and the other is a White male in his 60s with a wife. They have both told me about the crime they have witnessed there. I work for a private detectives agency so I always keep up on crime throughout the Chicago area.

While I’m thinking on some of these comments, Berwyn’s crime rate was 3,000/100k in 2006. There were 1,500 index (violent) crimes. Oak Park, by comparison, had a crime rate of 4,000/100k and 2,000 index crimes. So Oak Park’s crime rate was about 25% higher. Similarly, Forest Park’s crime rate was 4,850/100k. It had only 800 index crimes but given its size (16,000 versus 55,000 for Berwyn), its index crime rate is higher.

Do you believe housing values will also fall in Oak Park and Forest Park until their crime rates come down? Past trends wouldn’t suggest that. OP and FP have skyrocketed in value even though they have had historically high crime rates, and crime in those towns tends to be explained away by the media and others as an anomaly – “spillover” crimes basically. If not, why not? And is your opinion influenced by the demographic traits of the people who live in the respective communities? If so, why?

Sorry to be so inquisitive. We’ve been getting a lot of posts like this that seem to contain undertones about certain ethnic and racial groups the more I read them. I’m starting to grow curious about how much actual crime is factoring into some of those attitudes and perceptions. I’ve lived in Berwyn for 5 years and have had no problems but there seem to be a lot of people who seem to be telling me I should be having problems. So there’s a disconnect of sorts. I’m not attacking you here, I’m just honestly curious.