my suburb wish list:) (Naperville, Evanston: magnet schools, income, park)

[chet everett]

Originally Posted by oakparkboy

Oak Park, Illinois is about halfway between O'Hare and Midway (a ~30 minute drive to each,) but it has a stunning downtown with TONS of stores and restaurants. It has a world-class public school system in case you have kids, and despite its location bordering the rough neighborhood of Austin, it is an extremely safe community.
Chet Everett recommends Maywood, Bellwood, and Cicero, but all have very high crime rates so I don't recommend them.
Overall, I highly recommend Oak Park

Merely used the to illustrate the point that there are towns with crime issues east of ORD to refute another posters suprious claims...

...and I'm not going to let anyone get with unsupportable claims for a "world class" school system OPRF high school only merited a tie for 39th place out of Top 50 and none of the elementary or middle schools made the Top 50 ...

http://www.suntimes.com/images/cds/pdf/top50high-2008.pdf (broken link)
http://www.suntimes.com/images/cds/pdf/top50mid-2008.pdf (broken link)
http://www.suntimes.com/images/cds/pdf/top50elem-2008.pdf (broken link)


Doesn't sound like the couple has kids, so maybe the schools are not a big deal to them.

There are safer towns than Oak Park and certainly many closer to ORD, that said it has some unique qualities. Worth checking out if political progressiveness is a big deal to where one chooses to live...

[Lookout Kid]

Chet, those rankings are silly. I've realized after many posts that you have a beef with Oak Park, and believe that it's reputation is undeserved. I'll agree that "World Class" could be a stretch when describing the schools, but OPRF is among the best high schools in the state as far as I'm concerned. It will never have the highest test scores because of demographics, but it has some really great educational and extracurricular activities that aren't offered in a more "typical" high school. And from a personal perspective, it just seems to turn out some really well-rounded, interesting kids. Perhaps that's just the type of person who is attracted to Oak Park in the first place, but I've been very impressed with the people I know who attended OPRF.

Oak Park is a nice town, but if you're casting your net that far from the airport you have dozens of places to choose from. I was keeping my focus tighter around the airport with my Park Ridge reco. But to really get an idea of what you're looking for, we need to know more about you, Original Poster. Do you want a newer home, or are you into vintage? Is a walkable community important to you? Do you prefer traditional town planning (street grid with homes close together and front porches) or the post-war cul-de-sac subdivision? Do you want a new house in a recently converted cornfield, or a more established neighborhood?

[chet everett]

The SunTimes uses no magic to get the rankings -- they are simply using the data from the State Report Cards. I see nothing silly about that at all. The USNews ranking of High Schools have all kinds of weightings, some I which I do think are silly, others irrefutable...
I have no beef with Oak Park or any of the schools that serve residents at all. I have a big beef with people claiming a school is "crappy" or "excellent" without citing SOME KIND of data! I do tend to agree with you that there are PROBLEMS with OPRF's demographics that hinder its test scores, though that should NOT effect EVERY school in the district, should it? In fact, if OPRF wanted to really be some kind of shining model of "the right way to positively impact student performance" I would be singing its praises as I do believe that AS A NATION we desperately need SOMETHING like that... I really do not understand what you mean by a "typical" high school and its lack of "educational and extracurricular activities" -- in the Chicago region we have a huge variety of schools that offer a very broad array of activities and even some variety of educational experince, but on the whole MOST are very very similar. I can understand your admiration for the "intersting kids" from OPRF, and even the ancetodal evidence of being "impressed with the people I know who attended OPRF" but I unless the data is very wrong about "college readiness index" than those are the exceptions and not the rule: Oak Park & River Forest High School: Best High Schools - USNews.com (http://www.usnews.com/listings/high-schools/illinois/oak_park_%26_river_forest_high_school - broken link) In all honestly MANY schools that people "LOVE" have even WORSE numbers, so believe I am NOT picking on OPRF, but I do think it is important for people to realize WHAT IS AT STAKE by continuing to let "good feeling" over ride the data / logic about what makes schools succcessful...


I stand by my other recommendations about Oak Park having many unique qualities that may make it a fine choice to explore for those moving to the region.

[Paige65]

For what it's worth, here are the newest rankings for public high schools based on ACT rankings alone (I included all schools with ACT scores 23 and above). All students in IL are required to take ACT. Information is taken from Chicago Sun Times October 31, 2008:

1. Northside College Prep 27.8
2. New Trier 26.9
3. Payton College Prep 26.8
4. Deerfield 26
4. Young Magnet 26
6. Highland Park 25.8
7. Stevenson 25.7
8. Lake Forest 25.6
9. Glenbrook North 25.5
9. Hinsdale Central 25.5
11. Naperville North 25.4
12. Libertyville 25
13. Naperville Central 24.9
14. Fremd (Palatine) 24.6
14. Prospect 24.6
16. Maine South 24.4
17. Barrington 24.3
17. Glenbrook South 24.3
19. Nequa Valley 24.1
19. Hersey 24.1
21. Lyons Township 24
21. Vernon Hills 24
23. Geneva 23.9
24. Jones College Prep 23.8
24. Wheaton North 23.8
26. Lake Zurich 23.7
27. Glenbard South 23.5
27. Oak Park River Forest 23.5
29. Buffalo Grove 23.3
30. Evanston Township 23.1
31. Downers Grove North 23

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by chet everett

I do tend to agree with you that there are PROBLEMS with OPRF's demographics that hinder its test scores, though that should NOT effect EVERY school in the district, should it?

Yes, every school in district 97 has a significant number of poor black students, who generally do poorly on standardized tests (for reasons I won't get into here). Mann Elementary is perhaps the closest to a typical suburban school in terms of demographics (though not entirely), and it has test scores similar to what you would find in a well-regarded district like Naperville. When you adjust the other schools in Oak Park for demographics, the test scores shoot up precipitously. When I have more time perhaps I'll do a spreadsheet analysis to show test peformance adjusted for demographics across a few different schools (excluding any selective enrollment school, of course). It would be an interesting exercise! After all, I'm concerned about how MY child will do in the school--and the test scores of poor black students is a poor indicator for that. I'm not saying we as a society should not care about the performance of others, but it has nothing to do with my selection of a school for my family.

Perhaps I will also do a comparison of programs offered at the top schools along with OPRF, though this is not an apples-to-apples comparison. For instance, most high schools offer philosophy programs, but they vary widely in terms of depth and breadth of subject matter and quality of instruction.

[cubssoxfan]

Yes, every school in district 97 has a significant number of poor black students, who generally do poorly on standardized tests (for reasons I won't get into here). Mann Elementary is perhaps the closest to a typical suburban school in terms of demographics (though not entirely), and it has test scores similar to what you would find in a well-regarded district like Naperville. When you adjust the other schools in Oak Park for demographics, the test scores shoot up precipitously. When I have more time perhaps I'll do a spreadsheet analysis to show test peformance adjusted for demographics across a few different schools (excluding any selective enrollment school, of course). It would be an interesting exercise! After all, I'm concerned about how MY child will do in the school--and the test scores of poor black students is a poor indicator for that. I'm not saying we as a society should not care about the performance of others, but it has nothing to do with my selection of a school for my family.

Perhaps I will also do a comparison of programs offered at the top schools along with OPRF, though this is not an apples-to-apples comparison. For instance, most high schools offer philosophy programs, but they vary widely in terms of depth and breadth of subject matter and quality of instruction.

Excellent explanation of why one needs to really peel the layers on researching HS's.
Sounds similar to posts describing Evanston Schools. Also describes situation with my local HS, Wheeling HS. So take these opinions as a good starting point and then dig, dig, dig on your own and do personal research for your child(ren). You know them best. Also contact the schools your child would attend and visit them and talk to the administrators and parents. Good way to get parental info might be to get contact info on PTO. Call them and find out what they like about the school and what they are working on improving in the school. Sometimes the money the PTO provides will show funding gaps or gaps in funding ideology. Also see if you can visit during a sporting event and talk to parents there.

[cubssoxfan]

For what it's worth, here are the newest rankings for public high schools based on ACT rankings alone (I included all schools with ACT scores 23 and above). All students in IL are required to take ACT. Information is taken from Chicago Sun Times October 31, 2008:

Paige, do you have a web-link to the article? I tried finding it off Sun-Times web-site and my coffee must be defective this morning. Thanks.

[Paige65]

Originally Posted by cubssoxfan

Paige, do you have a web-link to the article? I tried finding it off Sun-Times web-site and my coffee must be defective this morning. Thanks.

Here you go, I had to go through the ACT data on my own. But here is all the information.

http://www.suntimes.com/images/cds/pdf/hsagate.pdf (broken link)

Honorable mention should go to those schools that made the list that have a higher percentage of low income students and still maintain a high ACT average.

Here are the schools (I didn't include the city magnet schools) that made my previous list that had ACT averages of 23 or greater and at least 8% low income:

6. Highland Park 25.8 (low income 9.9)
11. Naperville North 25.4 (low income 8.5)
17. Barrington 24.3 (low income 10.7)
17. Glenbrook South 24.3 (low income 12.9)
21. Lyons Township 24 (low income 8.2)
24. Wheaton North 23.8 (low income 19.7)
27. Wheaton Warrenville 23.6 (low income 10.9)
28. Oak Park River Forest 23.5 (low income 11.6)
29. Buffalo Grove 23.3 (low income 9.8)
30. Evanston Township 23.1 (low income 35.8)
31. Downers Grove North 23 (low income 9)

Didn't make list, but close:
Conant 22.9 (low income 10.6)
Glenbard West 22.9 (low income 9.1)
St. Charles East 22.9 (low income 8.3)
Niles North 22.8 (low income 19.6)
Grayslake Central 22.7 (low income 9.7)
Rolling Meadows 22.6 (low income 15.3)
Waubonsie Valliey 22.5 (low income 8.8)
Hinsdale South 22.4 (low income 11.8)
Lake Park 22.3 (low income 8.6)
Wheeling 22.1 (low income 26.8)

[MisUszatek]

Des Plaines is very close to O'Hare and has convenient access to both highways and downtown Chicago via METRA train

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by MisUszatek

Des Plaines is very close to O'Hare and has convenient access to both highways and downtown Chicago via METRA train

Just stay away from the River! Yowza.