So, What's wrong with Joliet? (Chicago, Aurora: real estate, crime rate, houses)
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Well, I compare Aurora to Joliet in many areas. Bad east sides, iffy near west sides, nice far west and north sides. Both have casinos, aged downtowns that are reinventing themselves, both have nice old theatres. Both cities also have sizeable African-American and Hispanic communities. Both cities are attracting businesses, Aurora more so. Overall, I think both cities are quite comparable and are growing rapidly. As far as stability? Hard to say which one is more stable. Aurora and Joliet are very old and have made names for themselves, both struggled bad with gangs and drugs (and areas continue to do so), and both are on the rebound with lots of newcomers and new businesses. Id say theyre tied stability-wise.
It doesn't matter which is more stable. They both, as of now, are not going to attract the the money and talent that other, smaller towns have done. That is my biggest complaint about Chicagoland. There isn't one community that really sticks out as a major player in a national sense. The bigger suburbs are nothing special, (and that's putting it very nicely). While the smaller ones do tend to have be decent places to live, I could go to any major city, and find the same kind of towns located outside of each. Until Aurora and Joliet can get their acts together, they are going to continue to create a "black mark" on the whole area. The only reason Joliet is growing is because there is no where else to move in Chicagoland without having a 2.5 hr. one way commute. I don't care if Joliet is the fastest growing place in the nation, or if the states biggest Wal-Mart just put up shop there. That is sprawl, not real substantial growth! Have you seen some of those areas that are growing around Joliet! They are the absolute and complete definition of cookie-cutter, and in another twenty years are going to look like junk!
If stability doesnt make a difference, then why did you bring it up in the first place? Good gork, man!
And if you really think there isnt a suburb that sticks out as a major player, then you sorely need a reality check. I think Chicago's suburbs are amongst the most powerful in the nation. Schaumburg, Naperville and especially Oak Brook have more Fortune 500 companies than most MAJOR CITIES. Where on earth do you come up with this stuff??? LOL Oh boy. Ever heard of the IL Technology Corridor? Out in that area are Nicor, International Truck and Engine, BP Amoco, Laidlaw, Office Max, Tellabs etc, etc, etc. Oak Brook has tons too, the biggest probably being McDonalds. Now, what were you saying about being major players? If you want to look at a thud of a major city, look no further than your beloved PHX. 5 million people in the metro area and less than 1/2 the Fortune 500 companies that can be found in small Chicagoland suburbs. LOL Pathetic.
Please, until you can make sense about what youre talking about, I suggest you hang out on the PHX boards with all the other PHX-worshippers and pretend what a "great" place PHX is. Please.
Oh, and if you want to talk about cookie-cutter sprawl, PHX IS NOTHING BUT! So if parts of Chicagoland will look "like junk in 20 years", then THE WHOLE STATE OF AZ WILL TOO! At least here in Chicagoland we have TONS of diverse architectural styles, completely unlike PHX area. Youve seen one PHX suburb, youve seen them all. Theyre all carbon copies of one another. Soulless, sprawling junk (with the nations worst schools to boot). Think before you speak. Attacking some neighborhoods here because of sprawl and cookie-cutter designs while completely ignoring the fact that that is what most of the entire state of AZ is, makes me laugh.
It doesn't matter which is more stable. They both, as of now, are not going to attract the the money and talent that other, smaller towns have done. That is my biggest complaint about Chicagoland. There isn't one community that really sticks out as a major player in a national sense. The bigger suburbs are nothing special, (and that's putting it very nicely). While the smaller ones do tend to have be decent places to live, I could go to any major city, and find the same kind of towns located outside of each. Until Aurora and Joliet can get their acts together, they are going to continue to create a "black mark" on the whole area. The only reason Joliet is growing is because there is no where else to move in Chicagoland without having a 2.5 hr. one way commute. I don't care if Joliet is the fastest growing place in the nation, or if the states biggest Wal-Mart just put up shop there. That is sprawl, not real substantial growth! Have you seen some of those areas that are growing around Joliet! They are the absolute and complete definition of cookie-cutter, and in another twenty years are going to look like junk!
Whether they are "cookie cutter" or not, what is a family trying to make it in today's awful economy of where mom and dad both have to work making maybe $65K a year combined to do for living, to put food on the table, and a roof over jr's head in a safe neighborhood?
Seriously whats the answer? Move into Oak Park where there are some "unique" homes and pay up the ***** in rent or buy a shack there for $400K? Get an apt downtown for $2K a mo? Move to Skokie and get an old dump for about a half mil? Or buy what they can afford where they won't have to invest $50K in upgrades updating things like pink bathtubs, old plumbing, pee'd on carpet, rotted out windows, etc.?
Also I might add that while Joliet and New Lenox both boast "cookie cutter" stuff, so what? IT SELLS! Thats what matters here. Who wants to buy into an area that is "unique" where you don't know if you will ever be able to get your money back out of the home? Where your "target audience" if you will is very slim? At least those homes out there in Will Cty are in HIGH demand and are very saught after as being little starter homes. Once you get more established, then, no, you probably won't stay in a sided little house there where like the poem says, "they're all made out of ticky tacky and they all look just the same"
But please don't generalize the southern/SWestern burbs as being "cookie cutter" All areas around here are with the exception of a few. Whether it be in Oak Lawn with the post war era cape cods and raised ranches and slab houses built in the 1950s or in Chicago with the bungalows that line the streets built pre-war that are only a few feet apart from eachother, to Naperville and Orland Park's mc mansions, to the tri-levels of the '60s & '70s lining the streets in Des Plaines and Oak Forest, one thing remains, they all look the same and the areas people on here are refering to as being "unique" are not, they are just older or newer and are simply products of an era where that style of home was popular and New Lenox proves to be the product of an era that loves small two stories constructed of bright siding.
If stability doesnt make a difference, then why did you bring it up in the first place? Good gork, man!
And if you really think there isnt a suburb that sticks out as a major player, then you sorely need a reality check. I think Chicago's suburbs are amongst the most powerful in the nation. Schaumburg, Naperville and especially Oak Brook have more Fortune 500 companies than most MAJOR CITIES. Where on earth do you come up with this stuff??? LOL Oh boy. Ever heard of the IL Technology Corridor? Out in that area are Nicor, International Truck and Engine, BP Amoco, Laidlaw, Office Max, Tellabs etc, etc, etc. Oak Brook has tons too, the biggest probably being McDonalds. Now, what were you saying about being major players? If you want to look at a thud of a major city, look no further than your beloved PHX. 5 million people in the metro area and less than 1/2 the Fortune 500 companies that can be found in small Chicagoland suburbs. LOL Pathetic.
Please, until you can make sense about what youre talking about, I suggest you hang out on the PHX boards with all the other PHX-worshippers and pretend what a "great" place PHX is. Please.
What in the world are you talking about? Yes, I do feel VERY comfortable saying that stability is not a concern since most people moving into the sprawling areas of Joliet and Aurora, aren't as concerned about it as someone moving into Evanston. Sorry, I guess I thought it was implied. That is why they are moving into Joliet and Aurora! They aren't interested in towns that are doing very well.
OK. Who said anything about Fortune 500 companies? I know I didn't and if that is what you are basing your claim on as a "good city" then you need a reality check. I guess if you use that claim then you are saying Houston is better than Chicago because Houston has more F500s. Go ahead, and let Shaumburg have some, but that doesn't make them known to the world. I know for a fact that if I went to any city in Phoenix and asked if they knew Shaumburg, Illinois, they would not! Same for Naperville, and Oak Brook. No one cares except the people that call those "great" cities home. Shaumburg is known as a regional shopping center, Naperville...who cares, and Oak Brook....again..who cares!
In other words, Seattle has Bellevue, Denver has Boulder, Phoenix has Scottsdale, LA has to many to count, same goes for NYC, San Francisco has Silicon Valley(which blows your IL TECHNOLOGY CORRIDOR...ooooooh...out of the water), DC has Arlington, etc. What does Chicago have? Nothing! That was my point. By the way, my father, grandfather, uncle, and cousin all work through an alternate firm that is directly related to Nicor, so I am very familiar with it.
LOL LOL LOL! I love how you talk about this CORRIDOR like it is some big deal on a national level, when one of the first companies you mention is Office Max! I don't think the people in the Bay Area of the Santa Clara Valley would put that under the same category! LOL! (makes me wonder what the 'etc.' 'etc.' had in store for us to be amazed at!)
I also like how you argument is so strong, that by the end you have to resort to yet more and more and more and more and more lame Phoenix attacks.
What in the world are you talking about? Yes, I do feel VERY comfortable saying that stability is not a concern since most people moving into the sprawling areas of Joliet and Aurora, aren't as concerned about it as someone moving into Evanston. Sorry, I guess I thought it was implied. That is why they are moving into Joliet and Aurora! They aren't interested in towns that are doing very well.
OK. Who said anything about Fortune 500 companies? I know I didn't and if that is what you are basing your claim on as a "good city" then you need a reality check. I guess if you use that claim then you are saying Houston is better than Chicago because Houston has more F500s. Go ahead, and let Shaumburg have some, but that doesn't make them known to the world. I know for a fact that if I went to any city in Phoenix and asked if they knew Shaumburg, Illinois, they would not! Same for Naperville, and Oak Brook. No one cares except the people that call those "great" cities home. Shaumburg is known as a regional shopping center, Naperville...who cares, and Oak Brook....again..who cares!
In other words, Seattle has Bellevue, Denver has Boulder, Phoenix has Scottsdale, LA has to many to count, same goes for NYC, San Francisco has Silicon Valley(which blows your IL TECHNOLOGY CORRIDOR...ooooooh...out of the water), DC has Arlington, etc. What does Chicago have? Nothing! That was my point. By the way, my father, grandfather, uncle, and cousin all work through an alternate firm that is directly related to Nicor, so I am very familiar with it.
LOL LOL LOL! I love how you talk about this CORRIDOR like it is some big deal on a national level, when one of the first companies you mention is Office Max! I don't think the people in the Bay Area of the Santa Clara Valley would put that under the same category! LOL! (makes me wonder what the 'etc.' 'etc.' had in store for us to be amazed at!)
I also like how you argument is so strong, that by the end you have to resort to yet more and more and more and more and more lame Phoenix attacks.
I grew up in the Chicago area and spent the last 18 years in the Phoenix area in the high tech industry and I can say for fact that the Phoenix area is sorely lacking in true technology driving companies...sure there are some old style military contractors along with some semiconductor manufacturers but there is not a whole bunch of true 'real' IP in regards to new hardware/software designs coming out of AZ...it is pretty lame and that is why I'm seriously eyeing a move back to ChiTown so I can be involved with 'real' electronic design technology.
Don't even mention Scottsdale...all it is a 'service/resort' suburb of Phoenix...there are no technology movers/shakers in that town...don't even try to count Taser...lol
Also, the state of AZ sees EXTREMELY small amounts of VC...pitiful really...indicating the lack of focus on new technology. The whole state is basically service related, realtors and call centers...which only make low level IT guys happy...Chicago has infinitely more going on in regards to true high paying positions at companies that can make a 'difference'.
I grew up in the Chicago area and spent the last 18 years in the Phoenix area in the high tech industry and I can say for fact that the Phoenix area is sorely lacking in true technology driving companies...sure there are some old style military contractors along with some semiconductor manufacturers but there is not a whole bunch of true 'real' IP in regards to new hardware/software designs coming out of AZ...it is pretty lame and that is why I'm seriously eyeing a move back to ChiTown so I can be involved with 'real' electronic design technology.
Don't even mention Scottsdale...all it is a 'service/resort' suburb of Phoenix...there are no technology movers/shakers in that town...don't even try to count Taser...lol
Also, the state of AZ sees EXTREMELY small amounts of VC...pitiful really...indicating the lack of focus on new technology. The whole state is basically service related, realtors and call centers...which only make low level IT guys happy...Chicago has infinitely more going on in regards to true high paying positions at companies that can make a 'difference'.
You quoted me, put you must not have read what you quoted. I wasn't comparing Phoenix to Chicago in any way. I simply and openly stated that Chicago doesn't mave a suburban community that really stands out in a positive light to the nation. This of course is in reference to Joliet and Aurora, which many people outside of Chicago have heard of, but not in the same ways that you here about Orange County, California. I don't know you people are spending your time attacking Phoenix on a forum that has nothing to do with it. Phoenix is the infant of US cities, and Chicago is one of the old geezers. For as old and built up as Chicago is, it should have more than it does. I think for as young as Phoenix is, it tends to do ok. I wouldn't expect a ten year old to be able to run the Boston marathon like a fifty year old that has done it many times!
You quoted me, put you must not have read what you quoted. I wasn't comparing Phoenix to Chicago in any way. I simply and openly stated that Chicago doesn't mave a suburban community that really stands out in a positive light to the nation. This of course is in reference to Joliet and Aurora, which many people outside of Chicago have heard of, but not in the same ways that you here about Orange County, California. I don't know you people are spending your time attacking Phoenix on a forum that has nothing to do with it. Phoenix is the infant of US cities, and Chicago is one of the old geezers. For as old and built up as Chicago is, it should have more than it does. I think for as young as Phoenix is, it tends to do ok. I wouldn't expect a ten year old to be able to run the Boston marathon like a fifty year old that has done it many times!
I read what you said and you basically said it again...to NOT think Chicago has a standout suburban community that shows very positively from a business perspective is idiotic or because you don't know much about it...Chicago burbs are FULL of major corporations making a difference all across this country and the world.
Lets not also forget that much of the things that Chicago is known to be "great" for such as architecture, interior design, medical professions/healthcare, fortune 500 co's, as well as many large scale retail chains, not to mention museums, universities, and much more mostly lie within city limits, not the burbs. Why? Because there was room in Chicago build all that stuff in the city allowing easy access for everyone basically creating a central hub, not just gearing a city to those fortunate enough to have a car like LA did and now Phoenix where everything is spread out all over the place.
Are Chicago's burbs great? Probably not. When comparing us on a grand scale to lets say the burbs on Long Island or in LA no we probably won't stand out like some of their burbs will, but you know what? Try to compare prices! On LI for instance in their burbs like Amityville, Syosset, Rockville Centre, and Lynbrook, $500,000 will get you what I like to call a "Midlothian special" (referencing the town of Midlothian, IL) basically meaning some tired old dumpy house probably owned by some "white trash family" out there which ran the property into the ground and the home will either need to be knocked down, or require $100,000 of updating prior to moving in, not to mention the taxes there! LA? Well the same really goes there as well. Ever watch Flip This House? See what those little dumps out there go for? I mean we are talking houses that are not even habitible going for $700,000!
So all in all, while Chicago's burbs are rather run of the mill so to say... They are one major thing... AFORDABLE. Your house in one of those "cookie cutter" towns most likely won't put you into the "poor" house and you will have good schools for your kids to go to, average taxes, tons of shopping nearby, jobs up the *****, and you probably won't have to worry about getting shot at in the morning as you go out to get your paper... That is if it is even still there. (poking some humor towards LA's famous burb Compton)
I read what you said and you basically said it again...to NOT think Chicago has a standout suburban community that shows very positively from a business perspective is idiotic or because you don't know much about it...Chicago burbs are FULL of major corporations making a difference all across this country and the world.
You must not have read what I wrote because I wasn't speaking in terms of a buisness perspective!
Again, I think that it is sad that Chicago, with everything it has, has not produced a suburban community that people know on a national level as being positive. Meaning, good schools, low crime, excellent standard of living, quality of life issues, clean, etc. etc. Not major companies! Again, look at the Houston to Chicago reference in comparision to what you said. Many smaller cities, with far lower Fortune 500 companies have already produced alternate suburban cities that have everything I listed, and are known for it on national level. Does that make sense now!
Last edited by desert student; 01-16-2008 at 08:18 AM..
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They both, as of now, are not going to attract the the money and talent that other, smaller towns have done. That is my biggest complaint about Chicagoland. There isn't one community that really sticks out as a major player in a national sense. The bigger suburbs are nothing special, (and that's putting it very nicely). While the smaller ones do tend to have be decent places to live, I could go to any major city, and find the same kind of towns located outside of each. Until Aurora and Joliet can get their acts together, they are going to continue to create a "black mark" on the whole area. The only reason Joliet is growing is because there is no where else to move in Chicagoland without having a 2.5 hr. one way commute. I don't care if Joliet is the fastest growing place in the nation, or if the states biggest Wal-Mart just put up shop there
They are the absolute and complete definition of cookie-cutter, and in another twenty years are going to look like junk!
