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Alright. Not knowing the original poster's specific desires in a community and flanking Chet's normal rant, here is what I like (and appreciate) and dislike, about Oak Park. It's fairly boilerplate OP stuff, but it's real.
Likes:
Urban, (somewhat) cosmopolitan suburb. The only suburb i would say that has these same culture qualities (and moreso) would be Evanston.
Walkable
I think it's overplayed by many, but there is a palpable feeling of diversity in OP. It's promoted to the point of ad nauseum, but it's there. I'm not sure this is so much a "like" but an acknowledgement
Good libraries and parks
Youthful
Great transportation and access to Chicago. IMHO, the best access of *any* suburb, including Evanston.
Very supportive of arts and culture
Good to great schools
Sense of community
Next to Forest Park and River Forest
Finally promoting a craft beer culture
Architectural vernacular
Very little violent crime
Park district sports program
Hemingway, Wright, Burroughs, Julian, my daughters, et al
Frankly, people are pretty smart/well educated in OP.
Mehs:
Restaurants are good, could be better
Harrison St. arts district has *so much* unrealized potential
Summer block parties
No real large businesses/corporations to alleviate tax burden
Dislikes:
Next to Austin and Berwyn (my opinion people)
Can definitely be cliquey
Taxes
Taxes
Village bureacracy
Poorly timed stoplights
Non-violent crime; decent number of break-ins
I wish there was a university in OP
A bit far in real miles from the Big Lake, but I guess "relatively" close.
Taxes
Challenging permitting process for new businesses (not to mention taxes)
I might suggest something like "pervasive shared self importance" for "culture" and I think that MANY suburbs actually have a much stronger association with "youthful" but the rest of the pluses are spot on, as are the "mehs" and the "dislikes".
I have not really thought about the lack of a major University in town, but having spent quite a lot of time in various "Big Ten" college towns I would sugget that would be a VERY interesting change. I'd even go so far to say that if there were a major university in the town, with all the diversity of agendas that would come with such a major shift in everything from sources of revenue, to both the positives of student oriented business spending to the negatives of bigger traffic issues / more mainstream drinking issues, some of the other problems would probably be addressed.
Hemingway, Wright, Burroughs, Julian, my daughters, et al
It is great to see how Oak Park has put forth effort to preserve the legacy of Percy Julian. My father knew him, and always thought he was only denied the Nobel Prize because of his race.
That said, he had a hell of a time with racist Oak Park residents just after moving there from Maywood in the 1950's, including cross burnings and arson attacks. Many residents of Oak Park were appalled at this, however, and rallied behind the Julian family. Some credit this with the current Oak Park emphasis on diversity as a sacred value.
I don't think that's fair either. The word "token minority" really comes from an effort to appear diverse by having the one intentionally-placed black friend in a sitcom, or a boardroom. Suburbs that are 90% white are not importing minorities to appear more diverse to the outside world. People belonging to minority groups are just trying to live their lives there like everyone else, and I think this "token" term is really disparaging in this context. Or really in any context, since it implies that the a person doesn't really belong, and is only there due to a sort of "affirmative action".
Not that I think you tried to disparage anyone with your comments. I get it. You were trying to throw another dig at the less diverse suburbs in the area. How Oak Park of you!
Yeah, I know what you mean, and I had no intention of disparaging any minorities regardless of the number they make up in any place. I personally do not see them as "token", but was responding to a post I felt was reactionary and completely off base.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfcambridge
To the OP...
Unfortunately, every thread about Oak Park degenerates like this. Chet dislikes Oak Park, although he has never lived there and I think it is not a place he would like to live. Not every town is for every person. It is just unfortunate that one person's outside opinion leads to so many posts, arguments and diversions. But I look at it this way... a place that can arouse so much passion in so many people, has to be interesting! If "interesting" is not for you, then Oak Park is not for you.
Here's how I think of Oak Park. My Father lives in a house on a typical appearing street in the middle of Oak Park. On one side of him lives an older African American couple, husband is a Vet. On the other side, lives a single professional woman, raising her son alone. A few houses over are two flats that house a University professor, a 3 generation an African American family on public assistance, and a young couple just starting out. And there are several very wealthy families and older couples who live in spacious houses across the street. Several very successful couples/families... some with both adults working, some with a stay at home Mom. Politically all over the map, but in general socially tilted liberal, although many are fiscally conservative.
If you want to live in an area of Oak Park with all very wealthy people, you can find a block like that. If you want to live in an area with a more economically diverse group of people, you can find that too. And when you sit at the outdoor tables at Poor Phil's restaurant and watch the people who walk by, you'll see a little bit of everything. And I think that's a good thing.
I agree whole heartedly with this. It is unfortunate that Oak Park threads tend to degenerate into long drawn out arguments due to individual dislike for the village. The topics generally start out alright, and then an individual with an axe to grind spreads a bunch of misinformation and generalizations around, and when people start to contradict these falsifications they get branded as "self-important" and "steers"... But to let such rants go on would be a disservice to outsiders truly wanting to get info. as potential residents, which is why I continually suggest they hear from a number of residents with actual experience living in the village who can provide personal realities and also analysis of data and research. Visiting is also important. It's true, some people will love Oak Park, and some people will hate it.
It is true that there is a lot of mix of things, which provides for various people. I don't agree with Chet's comparison between Oak Park and Chicago about being similar with "economic segregation". The only part of the village that feel that way is the north west, and parts of north central Oak Park, as they tend to have the largest density of large homes and mansions. When you go to other parts of Oak Park, South, east, South west, and event parts of west central Oak Park, you get a much more diverse range of homes and apartment block, with blocks that intermix economic statuses from low income to market price residents. When you go to south central, you get huge homes next to medium to smaller bungalows, next to apartments etc... You cannot generalize about this stuff and provide an accurate picture.
I do not contest Chet that there maybe apartments across from Hinsdale Central that have a similar market price range, but how many opportunities for low income residents are there in these apartment blocks... Hence, even if one is living "modestly" (I'm guessing this is relative to middle class and rich households), they can still afford market price, which is not the same when it comes to mixed economic levels between the rich and the poor.
And I find Chet's comment about "socially engineer some fake racial balance" very odd. There IS no "fake racial balance", as you either have some sort of balance or you don't. The Oak Park strategy Chet seems to hate so much started many years ago and happened out of a specific historical period, where many whites fled to further out suburbs as black residents moved to the west side, but many whites stayed too. Whether he feels a certain way about the fact that the introducing residents to various parts of the village was a natural or artificial is of no consequence to todays reality, because the village has had much success with the way it's developed. By "intrusive meddling" relative to the achievement gap, I imagine that he means providing assistance to allow low income minorities to live in the village and how that's affected overall test scores. Of course it would be much easier to keep overall test scores up by providing little to no access for low income minorities to enter the village (a tried and true method it seems), but that would not help minorities and would increasingly add to the nationwide gap. At least Oak Park is addressing it.
Last edited by chitownperson; 03-12-2014 at 01:56 PM..
The "intrusive meddling" is in regard to the policies not of any schools but in horrendous complicated zoning / planning process that routinely drives away businesses and the continued reliance on artificial means to steer folks to various parts of town based on the color of their skin. Really the latter efforts are just incredibly distasteful in this day and age. Nobody has ever done such a thing in Hyde Park and things seem remarkable stable / successful in what is similarly an island of affluence and success in a sea of failed neighborhoods but the UofC remains a bastion of econmic thinkers that well know the dangers of overly intrusive government ...
Honestly to say Oak Park is "addressing" the gap in acheivement is beyond belief -- the gap has not closed at all in DECADES. It seems that like efforts of the Federal Government designed to eliminate poverty, the misguided do-gooders of the village have had the unintended consequence of perpetuating a culture of under performance. Had a foriegn power or religious zealot designed the same sort of ineffective "interventions" that seem to have made the achievement gap a permanent part of the Oak Park schools we would call it "terrorism". That is somethng that I cannot abide.
Until I watchedpart of the Chicagoland series I did not realize Chicago Public Schools were 97% minority students. As a whole IL students from K-8 get a good basic education. Grades 9-12 all have the problems: teenagers. A parent in the classroom, at school functions, in the board meetings, and involved with school work should have a child with a solid K-12 education. It doesn't always happen but it should
Oak Park is racially and culturally diverse in people and in business. The village and library are well awarded for achievements, livability, architecture, etc.. The library as programs for children starting as young as three, and after school programs for children of working parents, etc. OP has a nice public park system that includes a dog park. OP also a diverse religious community; it is neither one note nor one brand. OP has green lawns and many mature trees, and world's largest collection of Frank Lloyd Wright buildings. The police do a pretty good job of keeping major crime at bay.
OP has many of the same services Chicago does: zip car, limo, taxi, bus and train. Housing stock is just as diverse, it ranges from Section 8 to multi-million dollar mansions. Restaurants range from Open Table to sandwiches and coffee. Dairy products are delivered to the door. Oak Park has its galleries, and Performing Arts, but it's also a bit quirky. The Church of Beethoven may be its best kept secret. If Oak Park was ghetto, the educators, doctors, stock brokers, banks and trust fund babies would leave in droves. I had not seen any indication of a mass exodus in say the last forty years that I visited.
If you're really nervous about moving you should be able to take a short-term lease. On the on the other hand you can still take that lease while you look for your new home. It is easier to move a few blocks in OP than it is to move across town in Chicago.
The "intrusive meddling" is in regard to the policies not of any schools but in horrendous complicated zoning / planning process that routinely drives away businesses and the continued reliance on artificial means to steer folks to various parts of town based on the color of their skin. Really the latter efforts are just incredibly distasteful in this day and age. Nobody has ever done such a thing in Hyde Park and things seem remarkable stable / successful in what is similarly an island of affluence and success in a sea of failed neighborhoods but the UofC remains a bastion of econmic thinkers that well know the dangers of overly intrusive government ..
The U of C is the biggest property owner in Hyde Park. It runs the police department. Its the largest employer. It is largely responsible for the "urban renewal" which refashioned large parts of Hyde Park several decades ago, and its is actively driving the spate of development in Hyde Park today. While it is true that the U of C is a NGO, its has acted very intrusively with a very visible hand.
The term "NGO" is generally applied to quasi-charitable organizations that try to stay out of the political mess of foriegn countries. That is stretching things to call UofC such an organization. The University is a private entity but since they accept governmental funds for a variety of reasons (from student grants to research projects to the considerable activities of the UofC hospitals) there is NOT A CHANCE IN HECK that they could ever get away with any kind of skin tone based racial steering that happens in Oak Park!
Alright. Not knowing the original poster's specific desires in a community and flanking Chet's normal rant, here is what I like (and appreciate) and dislike, about Oak Park. It's fairly boilerplate OP stuff, but it's real.
Likes:
Urban, (somewhat) cosmopolitan suburb. The only suburb i would say that has these same culture qualities (and moreso) would be Evanston.
Walkable
I think it's overplayed by many, but there is a palpable feeling of diversity in OP. It's promoted to the point of ad nauseum, but it's there. I'm not sure this is so much a "like" but an acknowledgement
Good libraries and parks
Youthful
Great transportation and access to Chicago. IMHO, the best access of *any* suburb, including Evanston.
Very supportive of arts and culture
Good to great schools
Sense of community
Next to Forest Park and River Forest
Finally promoting a craft beer culture
Architectural vernacular
Very little violent crime
Park district sports program
Hemingway, Wright, Burroughs, Julian, my daughters, et al
Frankly, people are pretty smart/well educated in OP.
Mehs:
Restaurants are good, could be better
Harrison St. arts district has *so much* unrealized potential
Summer block parties
No real large businesses/corporations to alleviate tax burden
Dislikes:
Next to Austin and Berwyn (my opinion people)
Can definitely be cliquey
Taxes
Taxes
Village bureacracy
Poorly timed stoplights
Non-violent crime; decent number of break-ins
I wish there was a university in OP
A bit far in real miles from the Big Lake, but I guess "relatively" close.
Taxes
Challenging permitting process for new businesses (not to mention taxes)
Thanks! I do believe that the village intends to try to fix the permitting process. We'll see if the new director is able, she was an internal hire so I am not confident that she will bring innovative ideas and fortitude to the table. We shall see.
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