Why in the heck are they trying to build the Knights Stadium Uptown??? (Charlotte: house, sales tax)
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I wanted to go to the 4th of july ball game because nothing says america like baseball but due to it location I didnt want have to deal with that drive from lake norman area. (trying to stay on topic lol )
but wanted to just say
CG add dog parks to your list. This area is still rural enough to find a place to give dogs free roam ability.
As someone who is very active in the arts community, I do support some level of gov't support for the arts as I believe that the mere existence of these companies also increases quality of life, as parks and rec centers do-- just in different ways.
It's tricky...I don't use rec centers or many parks, yet I pay for them. Yet I will never complain as many people do not go to the symphony or theater as I do, and the gov't helps support that (in actually pretty tiny dollar amounts to be honest).
Now back to baseball: my major concern (as with the arena) is that while tax dollars are used, it is not open to all without paying for tickets. So that is where my concern has always been. However, I would still like to see private entities make an uptown stadium happen.
Yes it is tricky, but are you contradicting yourself regarding paying for a ticket to the baseball game or paying for a ticket to the symphony? That is why I think government should stay out of it, because all people have different tastes so why does the government get to choose where the money goes?
FWIW, I'll be going to Lion King this Saturday. But I think Charlotte Fine Arts has enough PRIVATE support to function on it's own.
Yes it is tricky, but are you contradicting yourself regarding paying for a ticket to the baseball game or paying for a ticket to the symphony? That is why I think government should stay out of it, because all people have different tastes so why does the government get to choose where the money goes?
FWIW, I'll be going to Lion King this Saturday. But I think Charlotte Fine Arts has enough PRIVATE support to function on it's own.
The difference with the arts groups charging for tix and the baseball is that baseball teams are NOT non-profit.
I am on the board for a local arts group...ticket sales do not support Charlotte arts groups. They make up less than 20% of the budget. That's why tax dollars are needed to help keep the arts alive.
On the other side you have the Bobcats and proposed baseball who are simply there in order to profit.
So, I go back to my original argument: if it's non-profit, I feel better about my tax dollars supporting it.
I wanted to go to the 4th of july ball game because nothing says america like baseball but due to it location I didnt want have to deal with that drive from lake norman area. (trying to stay on topic lol )
but wanted to just say
CG add dog parks to your list. This area is still rural enough to find a place to give dogs free roam ability.
Actually, dog parks cost the individual $35 for access; however, they will be free to the public beginning summer 2008.
I'm glad they're building the stadium uptown. This was one of the things my former city - Buffalo - did right several years ago. Buffalo's triple-A team plays downtown in the heart of the city and every year the Buffalo Bisons have among the best attendance of all the minor league teams. When they first built the stadium, they out-drew several major league teams.
If Charlotte is planning ahead, they'll also follow Buffalo's lead and build the stadium so that can be easily expanded to Major League levels in the hopeful situation that Charlotte could draw a Major League team in the future.
In Buffalo's situation, they were among the 4 final cities in the running to get a major league team back in the early 90's. The two teams that won were Denver and Florida. A few years later the third finalist - Tampa - got their team. With great foresight, though, Buffalo pulled its name from contention for the majors after losing to Denver and Florida because the owner (Bob Rich) realized that they couldn't compete with the direction the Major League's was going financially (as well as the direction the population of Buffalo was going). Buffalo's a smaller city than Pittsburgh and Kansas City, for example, and those two cities can't compete in the majors - and haven't for many years.
Back to the Knights, I'm hoping they could eventually draw a major league team - but in the mean time I think its good for everyone to have the new stadium uptown. Having been to a game in Fort Mill, that stadium is garbage. Assuming they needed to build a new stadium somewhere anyway - I'm glad its uptown. Using taxpayer money is something that I agree is unfortunate - but odds were they were going to be using taxpayer money no matter where they built it, so I can save that argument for another day.
I understand your point, but where does it end? It's still basically a subsidy. I think I read last night that 52% of this country is on a welfare system. Big Gov is growing rapidly and more and more people/companies are depending on it.
I love baseball, but everybody doesn't it. You may like the NBA, but I don't. Why should the government get to decide what to do with my/your money when it comes to extracurricular activities? The market should decide.
Big government is bad government.
Zero disagreement here. The government shouldn't be footing any part of this cost.
But, given that's how our screwed up system works today, that's why I asked about BA Stadium--I'm guessing that the positive return on investment outweighed the initial investment there....but then there is the Hornets example.
I'm not all that Machiavellian (ends justifies the means), so I would be saying the same thing you are now, then, had I been here (well, actually I wouldn't have, given that I was much more on the socialist track then than I am on the classical liberal track at this point, but you get the idea).
No one knows for certain if the idea will be a great investment or not, until it acutally happens.
FWIW, I'll be going to Lion King this Saturday. But I think Charlotte Fine Arts has enough PRIVATE support to function on it's own.
Even if it doesn't, taking citizen dollars to pay for something when they don't partake is still theft. Stealing from individuals to pay for something that those few that run the community thinks is best has never been, nor will ever be, right.
The country was built on individual freedoms (press, religion, firearms, due process, etc.) , not mob rule where 51% of the country gets to tell the other 49% how to live and what they can do (what true democracy is vs. our current federal republic).
I'm all for supporting the arts--I donate and go to performances and showings, but if it comes down choosing between parts of the art community disappearing and forcing someone, who doesn't wish to voluntarily experience it, to contribute, that's where I let it go--or contribute more of my own money to see something I like continue.
Even if it doesn't, taking citizen dollars to pay for something when they don't partake is still theft. Stealing from individuals to pay for something that those few that run the community thinks is best has never been, nor will ever be, right.
In that case, I want all the money I paid in taxes that went to the schools, Medicaid, Medicare, and welfare back, plz.
I hear what you are saying and it is true in theory, but does not really work well in the real world. I think I posted already: to have a vibrant community we sometimes need to shell out dough for things we may not use personally.
I will say that my personal belief is that these ancillary, non-profit programs and services should be paid for in LARGE part with private dollars, with tax dollars in the form of grants making up the deficit. This is even more possible when our taxes are kept low so we have extra discretionary income for which we can all use to fund our causes. This can be done!
BTW saw yesterday that Charlotte is a top 10 city for volunteering and philanthropy. Interesting!
In that case, I want all the money I paid in taxes that went to the schools, Medicaid, Medicare, and welfare back, plz.
You and me both.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmway
I hear what you are saying and it is true in theory, but does not really work well in the real world. I think I posted already: to have a vibrant community we sometimes need to shell out dough for things we may not use personally.
Sometimes yes, sometimes no. If everyone knows the government is going to step in, and since they've already paid into said government, there is much less cash for donating (in reality or imagined by those that have already "given at the office"). In either case, to have that vibrant community, people should really be asked, not forced. Again, theory--but it has worked in the past in reality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmway
I will say that my personal belief is that these ancillary, non-profit programs and services should be paid for in LARGE part with private dollars, with tax dollars in the form of grants making up the deficit. This is even more possible when our taxes are kept low so we have extra discretionary income for which we can all use to fund our causes. This can be done!
And that would be a great start--especially to find out if it could work in today's societies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmway
BTW saw yesterday that Charlotte is a top 10 city for volunteering and philanthropy. Interesting!
Are you sure you are a liberal? You sure don't sound like it!
Classic Liberal.
Before the Socialists got a hold of the term "liberal", it meant something else. Today, folks in the US call it being a Libertarian. To any country outside the US, I'm a liberal.
Basically, I'm pro-choice on EVERYTHING. It comes down to me trusting others to do what's right for themselves, as long as they don't infringe on anyone else's right to do what's best for them. Simple concept--terribly difficult to do in real life--too many folks out there that want to control others.
Apologies for 'jacking the thread--back to the stadium!
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You sure don't sound like it! 
