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Since you mention my FLUTD kitty, I will use her for example. She is a biter. Do you know what would happen if she bit someone, and was not up to date on her rabies vaccine? At the minimum, 14 day quarantine, in a stainless steel cage, at the vet or a shelter, at my expense.
Away from me and all she loves for 14 days, minimum. And I've read some stories.....these pets that are in enforced quarantine because of biting are not treated nicely.
My FLUTD girl is socialized, by me (it took 3 years) but it is a veneer, only. Not only that, she has a phobia to stainless steel. I really think she would lose her mind if she had to be quarantined away from me for 14 days, in a stainless steel cage. If she bit someone, without an updated rabies vaccine, it would be kinder to euthanize her on the spot.
So I choose the annual purevax vaccine as the lesser risk.
Ah...well, this is now something I can see in a different light altogether. Just like people who live in areas with a lot of flooding, tornado or hurricane risk are cornered due to laws about boarding, flying, etc, you are left with a choice that is not really a "choice" at all...vaccinate like they tell you to, or you're up ****'s creek with a turd for a paddle .
In some cases, we must choose the lesser of 2 evils...like most presidential elections, LOL !
C21, is your biter in contact with other people? Or is your main concern the vet when your cat goes in to see her?
There is just so much information out now that states that once a cat is immunized, it is for its life. I have laws as well as you do here, where I live, but it is not stopping me to do what I know and believe to be in my cats' best interest. There are reasons why Aimee's Rabies Exemption Law is in effect, so that cats, like yours, do not have to be vaccinated according to the law mandate.
I know change is scary, for it means it represents the Great Unknown. You've always done things a certain way, and that is the way you like them. I respect your choices, I really do, yet, I want you to know about the facts, the real facts, so that IF you change you mind in the near future, you have the information to back your decision up.
That someone is ME who stated that yes vaccines do compromise ie. destroy immune systems. Evidently this link was missed or not read, so again I post it.
And you are wrong. There probably isn't one person on this Board including YOU who were not vaccinated as a young child. And our immune systems were not destroyed. Many of us have aged pets and their immune systems weren't destroyed by vaccines. Try explaining that to us.
SNIP... no one is taking about sick cats being vaccinated.
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I seriously don't care what some here think, but I do care about the cat that that human is responsible for. When are some of you going to realize that the ones here who have the courage to step forward and say vaccines can be dangerous to the health of your cat, are not just blowing hot air, but do have actual backing with DVM's now, who they themselves have found the courage to step forward?
An Holistic DVM with an agenda should be blindly believed? I don't think so. Maybe most of us don't want to go back to the days when our pets and children died of diseases that are preventable now. Maybe they and their family and friends never had or saw one of these nightmare reactions the Holistic sites like to shock and awe people with. A mild reaction? Of course. Even children may have that. But I would rather see a child or cat not feel well for a few days than die of rabies or sicken and perhaps be crippled for life by some other preventable disease. Most people probably feel the same.
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Have any of you even given it a thought's notice that my vet is NOT fighting me regarding vaccinations for my special needs cats? Maybe she has finally seen enough of the "curses" that come along with repeated vaccinations and the epidemic of chronic diseases that have mushroomed out of control. Maybe she is beginning to see the light, the truth of the harm that vaccines do.
You can't speak for her or her motives. They are not allowed to argue with the clients or try and force something on them they do not want. She may agree with you or she may think you're nuts. You can't speak for her.
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Oh, one last thing. I have you on ignore, Kitty, so even if you rip my words apart as is your usual, I won't be able to read them, and I won't read them.
My interest is in the welfare of the cats, not your ego. I wont let wrong and dangerous information go by without saying something. Vaccines do not destroy the immune system. Again, if they did few of us would be here on this Forum. The rest would have died by now of some disease or infection.
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Just sayin'. "Someone" alerted me as to what you said about more or less calling me a liar.
Really? I said you were WRONG, not a liar. Take it as you will. I don't want you misleading anyone reading this Forum.
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So, hence, I posted again the link I did, backing my words up that yes, vaccines are destroying our cats' immune systems. I would read it if I were you.
Why? I have no interest in the unscientific opinions of holistic practitioners ranting about greedy drug companies. People who treat breast cancer with broccoli and cucumbers and magic zappers. I'm not about to go back to the pre-vaccination days and watch my cats die of Pan or one of the other diseases that are preventable today.
There is no proof on that site that vaccines are destroying cat's immune systems. If they were, most cats would soon be dead of disease or general infections. If you read other people's posts here, you would see many here have cats 10 years old and older. They would not live that long with no immune systems.
@ Kitty...because you quoted me 3 times in 3 separate posts, I'm going to do my best to address all of your questions, but if I forget something, feel free to remind me...
First, let me say that I am talking about routine vaccinations...ie., those which are given yearly after the kitten has already been vaccinated for the deadly diseases you mentioned like pan. I absolutely agree that the first set of vacs is necessary to protect our cats from these things...that was never in question from my side, I've said that all along.
And I have agreed with all of you who claim yearly boosters are a waste of money, time and indeed may be harmful in the long run.
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About my vet...he is actually holistic/traditional, so he doesn't practice either one exclusively...he still does plenty of surgeries, well checks, treatment with antibiotics when necessary, etc...and since he's always booked solid for at least a full week before I can get an appointment for a check-up (and usually a couple of months to schedule S/N), I'd say he's doing all right ! He recommends a high-protein, grain-free diet, and encourages people to give actual meat as treats instead of commercially-processed treats. He's also on-board with home-cooked and/or raw diets...what he is NOT on board with is kibble of any kind or most of the brands you find on a grocery store shelf. He doesn't sell or promote any particular brands, he explains what to look for and why it is important to look at the first 5 ingredients in particular and see specific meat sources at the top of that list. I love this vet because he isn't rigid in doing things only one way...he understands the importance of aggressive and more conventional treatment when it's needed, and sometimes it is...I am not anti-meds if those meds will save a life, that's for sure!
He sounds like a gem. Vets like him are hard to find.
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The reference I made about some people believing routine (not initial) vaccinations are healthy was not directed at you, it was more of a general statement about how a person is made to feel if they tell a vet "No, I don't want my cat being vaccinated again"...some of them look at you like you're the worst person on the planet. For someone who has NOT done any research or worked in the field, why would they question it? Why would they have any clue that it could be extremely harmful to keep piling on these vaccs? Most of them would be afraid to go against a vet's recommendation, and as a result of this and the laws in-place 160,000 cats die every year from cancer at the vaccination sites. This is why they do it on the leg or tail now...because cancer is so common at the vaccination site they do it on a place which can be easily amputated .
I am aware of this sad fact. People should refuse to vaccinate every year but there is no way to reach all the cat owners out there. Changing how a vet runs their business is almost impossible. Another sad fact. But to not vaccinate at all.... well, in time the death rate would start creeping up in cats just like in areas where parents stop vaccinating their children. We will most likely never wipe out the deadlier cat diseases.
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RE Garden's link...did you look beyond the site and see the quotes from actual vets? They're right there...just because it's a holistic site doesn't mean real vets don't get quoted on it . And I did post a link to a legitimate study...you quoted me from that post, but it seems you didn't read the link itself. I pulled several quotes from it, but you should read it in its entirety, and yes, there are findings that point strongly toward ROUTINE (not initial) vaccinations damaging the immune system.
Which I never disagreed with. Rabies is the exception since it's the law and this is one disease that can kill us. Why do some of you think I believe cats should be re-vaccinated every year?
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Again, and I can't stress this enough, I absolutely DO agree with initial vaccinations for our furry friends once their immune systems have matured...there are some very nasty killer diseases out there, I've held tiny puppies dying from parvo in my hands and cried as another tech injected them with the shot that would end their suffering...it's ugly, and something I'll never forget. But many of these puppies HAD been vaccinated for parvo, and the clients would be shocked...they didn't understand that until the immune system is mature enough, vaccines aren't very effective, so it's still very important to keep a puppy AWAY from dog parks, petsmart, and anywhere that is not a controlled and clean environment until that immunity kicks in. Same holds true for kittens...the very best prevention is to keep them inside where they won't come into contact with disease, keep the house very clean, take your shoes off or at least wipe the bottoms off before walking through the door, etc. until their immunity kicks into gear at around 6 months of age.
Excellent advice.
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I hope that's everything...cuz it sure took awhile, going up and down from post to post, trying to address all these questions, LOL!
I can see where you're coming from. My objection was the post from someone else claiming vaccines destroy the immune system. From there the thread went in all different directions.......
C21, is your biter in contact with other people? Or is your main concern the vet when your cat goes in to see her?
There is just so much information out now that states that once a cat is immunized, it is for its life. I have laws as well as you do here, where I live, but it is not stopping me to do what I know and believe to be in my cats' best interest. There are reasons why Aimee's Rabies Exemption Law is in effect, so that cats, like yours, do not have to be vaccinated according to the law mandate.
I know change is scary, for it means it represents the Great Unknown. You've always done things a certain way, and that is the way you like them. I respect your choices, I really do, yet, I want you to know about the facts, the real facts, so that IF you change you mind in the near future, you have the information to back your decision up.
Thanks for listening, C21.
The vet and techs are very skilled in handling her, so while a bite is not likely, it is possible. The fact remains that if she wasn't up to date on her rabies, they WOULDN'T handle her, and then where would I be? I believe in preventative medicine and that means she has to have her diagnostic tests every year.
I occasionally have various people in my apartment, a friend who comes for dinner now and then, my nieces stay with me for a week in the summer, the special needs girls I work with come sometimes, and I have an elderly friend (91) who comes over for lunch now and then. The risk that my girl will bite any of these people is very small, since they know to leave her be, but you just never know.
The risk that she will bite ME is much higher, since I am the one who cares for her.
Yes it is scary to think of not vaccinating for rabies. I've read many links and essays on this and there is a LOT of conflicting info. One says they are protected for life. Another says they are protected for three or four years. Another says if they were vaccinated too young or when they are sick, the protection won't be effective and so on and so forth.
I am comfortable with my choice to have my cats kept up to date on the PureVax rabies vaccine. There is no adjuvant, so the danger of VAS is next to none. My memory of living with cats goes back at least 40 years, and the cats of my childhood, and all the cats of my adulthood, so far, have not ever had a problem with the rabies vaccine.
I feel it is like any other treatment, you weigh the risks and make your choices. Convenia, for example has helped many cats, and yet there are thousands who have lost their cats to this antibiotic shot. My kitten had a Convenia shot during a spay complication, and she was fine, but Convenia is in the DO NOT USE list in each of my cats' files., including hers, now.
Convenia was used on the little stray I rescued and she was fine. She also had a purevax rabies vaccine, because it is the law. She was fine with that too. She probably had been vaccinated at least once before in her life, since her old tattoo indicated she was part of a TNR of many years ago.
Penicillin is very dangerous for people who are allergic to it, and one doesn't know they are allergic, until they are given penicillin. (I am one)
It's all about choices, priorities, we evaluate the risk factors against the benefits and make the choices that are best for us and ours.
Who ever claimed they NEED vaccines to be "healthy?" They need them to prevent deadly diseases like rabies and Pan. I never heard anyone claim vaccines are needed to keep them healthy.
And...this thread was started because someone falsely stated that vaccines destroy the immune system, which they do not, or most Americans wouldn't reach their teen years.
Vaccines DO destroy the immune system....and a lot of people DON'T reach their teens, or have lifelong health problems BECAUSE of vaccination.Your use of the word "most"speaks volumes....between 1956 and 1963 the polio vaccine that most people got was contaminated with a simian virus sv40....common knowledge...known to cause brain tumors and lung cancer....that's why they quit using that vaccine in 1963...If you want your pets to live long healthy lives...avoid vaccines.
I think that the vaccine issue is becoming more of a forefront concern of the conscientious pet owner. Sadly, this is still far too few. I can't say that I am against vaccination (yet) as I still believe the risk - and yes Mr. Drug Maker there are risk to your products! does not outweighs the benefits. However I do think we over vaccinate. Every year? Every three years? We do not vaccinate ourselves or our children on this kind of schedule - why in the world to we not think to ask questions when it comes to injecting poison into our furry companions at such an interval?
Fortunately some of us are. We will lead the way for the rest. After the kitten series and the follow up booster I do not give any more vaccines. I believe in a few years a titer can be drawn and if needed a new booster given. In most cases you will find your vaccine to still be effective. I do vaccinate on my states rabies required schedule - very much against my wishes - only because I have seen the devastation that ensues when not done.
It's a gamble either way on the rabies front, however it appalls me that lawmakers with no veterinary or pharmaceutical knowledge make these regulations. In 2007 the CDC declared the US to be canine rabies free. So why are we still filling our dogs with poison? MONEY!! Our lawmakers have their pockets lined by big pharma and that is the bottom line my friends.
Then how is it my immune system and the IS's of my family members and all my friends, neighbors and co-workers were not destroyed? Where did you get this information from? Some alt-med website or a genuine scientific website?
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.....and a lot of people DON'T reach their teens, or have lifelong health problems BECAUSE of vaccination.
Where is your evidence for this? Have you ever held a cat dying from panlukopenia in your arms? Dying because the owner believed the nonsense that vaccines weren't necessary and maybe dangerous? Or maybe they were too cheap to vaccinate or didn't know there was a vaccine for this scourge of cats and kittens.
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Your use of the word "most"speaks volumes....between 1956 and 1963 the polio vaccine that most people got was contaminated with a simian virus sv40....common knowledge...known to cause brain tumors and lung cancer...
Speaks volumes? Where are all the victims? How many per million people vaccinated? Nothing is fool proof, even vaccines. Mistakes can be made in everything man produces or designs. But what is the alternative? To start dying off again from contagious disease? Oddly enough all you alt-meds enthusiasts never address that issue. You pretend the question wasn't asked.
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.that's why they quit using that vaccine in 1963...If you want your pets to live long healthy lives...avoid vaccines.
Yes, avoid vaccines and let them die of panlukopenia, a horrible disease, and pay huge fines for not getting them vaccinated for rabies. That would only make sense to those with limited knowledge as to what contagious disease is and how it spreads and kills.
I think that the vaccine issue is becoming more of a forefront concern of the conscientious pet owner. Sadly, this is still far too few. I can't say that I am against vaccination (yet) as I still believe the risk - and yes Mr. Drug Maker there are risk to your products!
There is a bigger risk letting your cat wander around the neighborhood or feeding it a commercial food with all the recalls. And yet people insist on letting their cats roam around and still feed them kibble.
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does not outweighs the benefits. However I do think we over vaccinate. Every year? Every three years? We do not vaccinate ourselves or our children on this kind of schedule - why in the world to we not think to ask questions when it comes to injecting poison into our furry companions at such an interval?
Not all vets are recommending yearly boosters. My vet does not, nor did the vet before her (may his soul RIP).
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Fortunately some of us are. We will lead the way for the rest. After the kitten series and the follow up booster I do not give any more vaccines. I believe in a few years a titer can be drawn and if needed a new booster given. In most cases you will find your vaccine to still be effective. I do vaccinate on my states rabies required schedule - very much against my wishes - only because I have seen the devastation that ensues when not done.
Excellent information.
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It's a gamble either way on the rabies front, however it appalls me that lawmakers with no veterinary or pharmaceutical knowledge make these regulations. In 2007 the CDC declared the US to be canine rabies free. So why are we still filling our dogs with poison? MONEY!!
Poison? There is no "Poison" in the rabies vaccine. It was that very vaccine that keeps our dog population rabies free.
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Our lawmakers have their pockets lined by big pharma and that is the bottom line my friends.
Plus saving hundreds of lives by keeping rabies out of our pet cat and dog populations.
Then how is it my immune system and the IS's of my family members and all my friends, neighbors and co-workers were not destroyed? Where did you get this information from? Some alt-med website or a genuine scientific website?
Where is your evidence for this? Have you ever held a cat dying from panlukopenia in your arms? Dying because the owner believed the nonsense that vaccines weren't necessary and maybe dangerous? Or maybe they were too cheap to vaccinate or didn't know there was a vaccine for this scourge of cats and kittens.
Speaks volumes? Where are all the victims? How many per million people vaccinated? Nothing is fool proof, even vaccines. Mistakes can be made in everything man produces or designs. But what is the alternative? To start dying off again from contagious disease? Oddly enough all you alt-meds enthusiasts never address that issue. You pretend the question wasn't asked.
Yes, avoid vaccines and let them die of panlukopenia, a horrible disease, and pay huge fines for not getting them vaccinated for rabies. That would only make sense to those with limited knowledge as to what contagious disease is and how it spreads and kills.
Agree with every word of this post, my feelings and thoughts exactly.
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Originally Posted by =^..^=
There is a bigger risk letting your cat wander around the neighborhood or feeding it a commercial food with all the recalls. And yet people insist on letting their cats roam around and still feed them kibble.
Not all vets are recommending yearly boosters. My vet does not, nor did the vet before her (may his soul RIP).
Excellent information.
Poison? There is no "Poison" in the rabies vaccine. It was that very vaccine that keeps our dog population rabies free.
Plus saving hundreds of lives by keeping rabies out of our pet cat and dog populations.
this one too
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She is a biter. Do you know what would happen if she bit someone, and was not up to date on her rabies vaccine? At the minimum, 14 day quarantine, in a stainless steel cage, at the vet or a shelter, at my expense. 
.
!
! He recommends a high-protein, grain-free diet, and encourages people to give actual meat as treats instead of commercially-processed treats. He's also on-board with home-cooked and/or raw diets...what he is NOT on board with is kibble of any kind or most of the brands you find on a grocery store shelf. He doesn't sell or promote any particular brands, he explains what to look for and why it is important to look at the first 5 ingredients in particular and see specific meat sources at the top of that list. I love this vet because he isn't rigid in doing things only one way...he understands the importance of aggressive and more conventional treatment when it's needed, and sometimes it is...I am not anti-meds if those meds will save a life, that's for sure!
. But many of these puppies HAD been vaccinated for parvo, and the clients would be shocked...they didn't understand that until the immune system is mature enough, vaccines aren't very effective, so it's still very important to keep a puppy AWAY from dog parks, petsmart, and anywhere that is not a controlled and clean environment until that immunity kicks in. Same holds true for kittens...the very best prevention is to keep them inside where they won't come into contact with disease, keep the house very clean, take your shoes off or at least wipe the bottoms off before walking through the door, etc. until their immunity kicks into gear at around 6 months of age.
