Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Anyone who engages in this witch hunt by contributing to the bounty should consider their liability in any blacklisting or harassment lawsuits that may result. There are no laws against saying where trees are. There are laws against harassment campaigns. Talk to a lawyer before you proceed, or you might have to pay a lawyer a whole lot more later.
I sincerely hope the person or people behind FR reads this.
First of all, I would like to inform you that what you are doing is not only bad for the trees, it is bad for the people. The grove of titans is getting bashed up because of you, and now you also leaked the location of another special tree, and ruined everything for me. This was supposed to be my discovery- retracing the discovery, and finding it for myself. I got a clue about it, and was really enthusiastic. But then you took it all away from me. From us.
You revealing GPS coordinates for trees is not only taking all the fun away from people like Mario Vaden, Steve Hall, Mark Graham and me, it is also causing collateral damage. I broke my camera en route to Hyperion because you failed to mention how treacherous that route is. Someone might easily break their neck in a fall in that place, or get impaled, and the proximity of bears makes you leading people into dangerous terrain. The hike to Orion is even worse- I've never been myself, and probably won't be thanks to you, but Steve Hall gave insight into that area. So unless you want people to get killed, you will reconsider what you are doing.
Your website does provide lovely images, but the GPS and directions is killing it all.Some people want to find out by themselves. And I have no idea how you found Orion, but I know how you found the big tree, Juggernaut. Shame on you.
I also would like to gleefully say that your tree database is no longer accurate. There are glaring errors on your website, and I won't point them out at all. And thanks to you, remarkable images and stats from Mario Vaden were witheld. Now we will probably never know what some insanely gargantuan finds look like, thanks to you, unless we track it down for ourselves.
Steve Sillett does not release height data anymore thanks to you, too. And Hyperion is no longer the tallest tree. Nor is Grogan's Fault the largest redwood. Nor is General Sherman the widest tree. I know the locations of many insanely gargantuan trees in the redwoods as well as several other remarkable redwoods. That information stays with me and people I trust. I would have posted slight clues about them had you not ruined everything, but now will never even tell the names of the trees I am talking about.
I hope Mario gives us a glimpse of a tree he might find that will dwarf all the others. But he probably never will, now. You could have had such a nice website with such beautiful views. Instead, now we don't even know for sure which tree is second in height, or which is the largest. I know approximately, but not many know beside me.
I am also confident you will not ruin anything else. I know things you have no idea of. The truly remarkable trees are safe from you. And hordes of tourists. and if your site gets taken down, I will have a drink with OldManWinter in celebration.
Maybe someday, when Hyperion falls into the creek or Lauralyn dies, your failure will be complete. I hope not, but it is leading up to that.
I have this hilarious mental image of you stringing miles and miles of electrical cable and nailing up wifi routers all across the pristine forest in order to power and connect to all of these hidden cameras you're going to put up. You'll make the park look like the Borg tried to assimilate it, but hey, at least you'll know when someone outside of your circle jerk will have compacted the soil by a millimeter, unless you blink and miss it.
But it's okay when you do it, as you rationalize that as acceptable damage. it's just when anyone else wants to appreciate the superlative trees that you lose your mind.
But that's okay. Famous Redwoods has released most of the info, and I'm sure that come next summer there will be a whole new cadre of tree lovers out in the forests, brought there by the spirit of openness of FR in sharing directions and GPS coordinates of previously hidden trees. I'm equally certain that a small minority of those will be inspired by FR to buy range finders and tape measures and track down holdouts like Juggernaut and Helios, competing to be the first to let the world know how to reach those trees whose locations are currently embargoed by would-be gatekeepers. Six months from now, how you feel about the situation won't matter at all.
You literally are leading people into hospital! It never ceases to amaze me how narrow-minded people can be
totallyawesome you make me want to puke. It must really eat at you day and night that you can't find trees like Helios, Icarus, Juggernaut, Orion, etc. Sorry buddy game over and you lose. Everything Mr. Vaden has stated in this thread is dead-on. His profile of FR is dead-on. Every time I look at FR I sit hear just laughing my butt off for like 15 minutes cuz y'all can't find Helios. Maybe you haven't gone far enough up Lost Man Creek. Loser.
It makes me hoot louder than a screech owl to see you haven't found trees even easier to find than those! Let me give you a clue- give up! You did enough... I wanted to see pictures of new discoveries from Mario. Thanks for ruining it.
Sorry Montclairion but my buddy talked to Mr. Vaden and he said that he hasn't visited city-data for many months. He said he has no plans to return to the "black hole of time wasting" that takes place here.
He said that he contacted GoDaddy and they gave him receipts for every website he has registered with them or made payments for. And that evidence proves that he only owns mdvaden.com and vadenphotography.com. His point is that if someone states that the FR site is his while its not, they are putting more of a black eye and legal risk on themselves. They could open up themselves to a potential lawsuit for slander.
Bottom line, he told you to put up or shut up. If you have any proof, he demands that it be shown and posted. "Because it can't exist" as he has made clear.
I hope this post clears his name once and for all time. Mr. Vaden is not behind FR and it seems that he was framed as the fall guy for the real perpetrators. FREE MR. VADEN! FREE MR. VADEN! The chant grows louder by the day.
I can almost-confirm that MD Vaden is not behind FR as well. For one simple reason. Whne Mario found the colossal GF redwood in 2014, FR immediately put it up on their website- but could not find out where it was until somewhere in 2017-19. And the way they found it out is atrocious. Montclarion, TTS, would you like me to post how you did it, so everyone can hear and laugh?
Your heights list is horrible, and riddled with errors. And your pathetic attempts at location guessing are laughable. And your pathetic attempts to find GF are laughable too.
Some trees have lost height-some massively, some have overtaken others, new redwoods got discovered. It must really bite you that your website is incorrect because a tree has been found taller than Hyperion, doesn't it? And it must REALLY bite that I might know where it is and you will never find out, doesn't it?
Mario Vaden is not one for leaking locations. And if you have ever talked to him, or at least emailed him as I have, you will understand that he wants to keep the forests safe above all and not turned into one massive landfill. I regularly pay visits to Russia, and when I go into the forests to birdwatch, collect mushrooms or simply walk, it never ceases to amaze me how much litter there is in the forest. Soon enough, this will happen at the GOT and Hyperion.
You putting up where Hyperion is located without even bothering to think about those massive logjams and the slope as well as the bears and cougars present can be characterised as no less than "non compos mentis", or insanity. I won't be at all surprised if someone died there because of you.
If you have any proof that Mario is FR, or Steve Hall, or Mark Graham, or me, or Winter, demonstrate it.
All your website does is demonstrate what kind of careless person you are. Anyone reading this website and thinking of visiting Hyperion- DO NOT ATTEMPT TO GO THERE.
Montclarion, TTS, whoever you are, I think you deserve a massive 'thank you' from taking word of new discoveries away from us
The redwoods you post are nothing compared to some new discoveries. I know at least three redwoods that are larger than GF, and at least one tree taller than Hyperion. And now, thanks to you, I am forced to keep my info about them a secret. Mario is keeping info secret- and I actually really wanted to see how Jupiter looks like.
You have very nice images and very nice crown measurements that I have never seen anywhere else up there. You sound like someone who has been up at least one of those trees, including Helios.
You also have been seen going to Harper Flat. And your skills in that area demonstrate what a failure at tree-searching you are.
OldManWinter, would you like to hear about how GF was found?
Looks like you are an inside man indeed. Why do I think 'Yinghai'? Or 'Max Forster'?
But there is also how you measure tree crowns so accurately. I'll probably get torn apart here by saying this, but everyone who climbed Helios is therefore suspicious. Has anyone else beside Steve Sillett climbed it?
Very few people have found Helios. And I can vouch that at least one of them is FR. People excluding Steve Hall, Mark Graham and Mario Vaden.
FR, I know you are reading this, and I don't know who you are for certain. But sooner or later, we will find out. But Mario will never probably trust anyone again to post pictures of remarkable redwoods anymore.
So then, OldManWinter, who do you think is behind FR?
jqmhelios you made some really well thought-out posts regarding the whole tree seeking community and the FR scandal. It is too bad now that the locations and information about Uranus and Jupiter will never be given out except for a tight circle. And we will never know where Samurai is located.
I would agree that FR is definitely an "inside man". No doubt about it. It isn't some random stranger than nobody has ever heard of that is toying with everybody. What is crazy is how someone (was it a park ranger?) hired a Blackhat level 9 hacker to trace the source of FR and that hacker falsely accused Mr. Vaden and everyone believed it. Without seeing the alleged report written by the hacker or a single shred of evidence. Sounds like a total frame job. I don't think Mr. Yinghai or Mr. Forster are involved but then again I don't know them. So I understand why you might suspect them.
The people I know are Mr. Vaden, Mr. Graham, Mr. Hall, Mr. Nessie, and Mr. Taylor and I know none of them are behind FR.
jqmhelios, looks like you have read this thread thoroughly and have come up with some names and aliases you think may be associated with FR. I don't think it is anyone you have listed, and it definitely is not me.
I don't think there are any stats on FR that are not available in published research. In the research the trees are numbered, not named, but schematic diagrams and dimensions are included so it is easy to associate the numbers to specific trees. This is what I and others have done in our "tree treasure hunts", and I assume FR has done the same.
I don't think there is a redwood taller than Hyperion right now. I do agree with you there very well could be redwoods larger than Juggernaut/Grogan's Fault/Spartan (three names, but same tree).
OldManWinter,
The reason I have come to suspect Yinghai or Max Forster is because one of them years ago leaked something relative to the Patriarch Forest and I believe something else was leaked as well. Yinghai also posted something- I don't know what exactly. They are capable of taking really impressive images, and both have been to Helios, I believe.
Whoever it is, they don't have a lot of skill, as I have outlined. And a lot of money to spend. And possibly agendas to clear. I think I can also exclude John Montague from this list, as he knows where Jupiter is located and it stayed off FR despite being found before 2015.
Here is an example of their tree-searching skills: when a friend of Mario's posted images of GF on Facebook, he posted pictures of a trail, taken less than an hour previously. Both had EXIF attached. Then someone logged onto Facebook with a new account and asked where the trail was under the excuse they wanted to take family there. they told them the trail, and from there it was a simple matter using the time.
FR failed to find some of the trees in Harper Flat. And I believe you, Mark Graham, saw two of them. Do you know who they were? Because it is incredibly obvious that they are with FR.
Mark, please don't take offence at this, but had it not been for your statement you would have been my prime suspect due to several images you have posted.
I can now exclude from this FR list with certainty: Steve Hall, Mario Vaden, OldManWinter, Mark Graham, John Montague, Chris Atkins (he has been doing a lot of walking with MD Vaden and has discovered a few champions with him), Michael Taylor. I don't know about Steve Sillett.
As for the redwoods- I emailed you about these. I don't think it is wise to mention all of that here. Because I have the feeling FR at least visits this often.
What do you think?
jqmhelios, I agree with your list of people who are definitely not part of FR. You mentioned Steve Hall, Mario Vaden, OldManWinter, Mark Graham, John Montague, Chris Atkins. Also, I would add Michael Taylor, Mr. Nessie (he posted earlier on this thread and lives in Sonoma County), and Richard Preston. Also I would add you to that list. You definitely aren't part of the site.
A while back I encouraged a staff member at STRL to get a subpoena to attain the information on who owns FR. They told me at that time, "With regards to the subpoena, I would also support that avenue, if law enforcement felt it was a potentially productive and viable option. The last time I brought it up, there were concerns it wouldn’t be productive or viable. Maybe it’s a conversation worth revisiting." I might drop them a line again and tell them to one again consider pushing forward with it. It is probably the only realistic way to figure out who is behind the site.
My question regarding the leaking of GF is this: Did the person who posted the trail pictures on Facebook have their profile set to public or private? If they had it set to private, then whoever it is who made the fake account and messaged them must have actually been someone who was friends with them. Otherwise they could have never seen the post in the first place and wouldn't have pieced it together. So that would mean that FR was someone who was friends with that person on Facebook.
C'mon Mario Vaden, come out, come out - wherever you are - we're all still waiting for you to weigh in. Are you hiding behind a big redwood tree?
Enlighten your flock. You started this thread and now you've disappeared into the depths of the forest. But we know you're still peeking.
I'm certainly not personally making an accusation that you are THE ONE, but I find it odd that you've headed out of town using the Oldman to do your bidding, acting as your smokescreen. As you know, several sources have indicated that you are the one behind FR. But I guess, and according to Oldman, we're not supposed to talk about it. And we're not supposed to mention names. Well, they sure don't seem to be following this advice at Humboldt State.
What is really ironic is that you were the one that wanted to start a gofundme page to be used as a reward to the person who hunted down the creator of FR.
What I do know is that when I asked you about your potential involvement, even though we over the course of years had many exchanges, including direct emails and private messages, you told me that you were going to send my future emails to junk. Don't you think that's a little bit odd? So, again, I ask you, Mario, maybe you could enlighten us.
If it is you let us know and we might even be willing to help you out. I might even be willing to volunteer hours. And if I"m barking up the wrong tree, at least have the courage to tell all of us that you're not THE ONE.
And regardless of your decision - as I've said many times before, FR is a great asset to the tree community and the public at large.
And, if you would, OldMan, please don't try to bury this email with a flurry of junk postings.
Possibly there is no longer a mystery anyway.
Montclarion, in fact, you sound like the owner of FR who has a bone to pick with Mario. FR is not an asset to everyone- it is collateral damage, bruises, broken bones and trees being trampled.
If there are such sources- demonstrate them. Like I said, I have been in touch with Mario. Had he been FR, Helios, and plenty of new discoveries would have been posted. Now, thanks to you, we won't even get to know the real monsters lurking out there. FR spoiled everything, that's a fact for you.
If you ever post the location of Helios, you are incredibly foolish. You are already a big fool for posting Orion and Hyperion. It was witheld for a reason, and it is not just the glaring issue of trampled vegetation. Someone can die on those hikes.
It is good Mario knows who you are. Ask him- and we probably have the owner of FR. If someone started blaming me, and failed to listen to reason, as you have, I would have done the same thing as he did.
If anyone knows who Montclarion is, post that name here. Or do we know who you are? Are you a certain person with initials A.S?
If so, A.S.(S), we owe you a big thank you for paving the way for RNP to be made into another landfill like most Russian forests I've been to.
As for blaming Mario- can that garbage. You have evidence- show it. If no- feel free to remove yourself and your site from the internet.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
News-FR, you are HURTING people
