Welcome to California. Make sure to bring a generator ! (Paradise: how much, bankruptcy)
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We have a generator on natural gas, able to run two homes with everything, so I'm not harping about myself. But we have older people here who are barely able to pump gas in a car, so they wouldn't be able to fire up, gas up, and maintain a generator. Change the oil every 50 hours ? (I've seen the user guides).
I lived in Europe for 27 years, Hungary, Germany, and all I remember is one blackout lasting one hour.
California is considered by many as the number one state in the number one country, but we can't maintain the bare minimal needs of a functioning civilization.
The overall opinion among Paradise residents is that PG&E is squeezing our balls, showing us the ropes, because they are being sued by everyone and his uncle.
They want to show us they are in power, and in control, and we the peons can complain or drop dead.
Just recently PG&E asked the bankruptcy judge to allow using over $ 10 million to give bonuses to their executives for good performance.
If they would trim the trees near the transmission lines the fire danger from electrical would be more or less eliminated. The fires Paradise had in the past all started outside of the town limits.
Last edited by mgforshort; 06-22-2019 at 09:59 AM..
I have my frail 92 year old mother crippled with arthritis living in my home. This outages will be occurring at usually the hottest time of the year. As a middle age able body person I can handle an outage on a 105 degree day. Its impossible to just pack her up and leave for the coast. She barely gets by in my home. There are many others like her in a place like Butte County with its large elderly population. Our summer weather is extremely hot and can be extremely dangerous to vulnerable individuals without power for their air conditioning. And "just get a generator" isn't that easy. You must have your home's electrical system fitted where it can be plugged in to power the central AC... and that takes quite a beefy generator to boot. It would be several thousand dollars all together and I don't have it.
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Good point about the A/C in the hotter areas. My thoughts have been about people who need refrigeration for medication (insulin used to require refrigeration; I don't know if it still does, or if they have some new kind that doesn't...), people on special diets that need certain foods, who can't get by on canned goods, and so on, people who need electricity for their medical devices.
I wonder if area hospitals would be able to take such patients in, so they could get the care they need. Don't hospitals have back-up generators?
We have a generator on natural gas, able to run two homes with everything, so I'm not harping about myself. But we have older people here who are barely able to pump gas in a car, so they wouldn't be able to fire up, gas up, and maintain a generator. Change the oil every 50 hours ? (I've seen the user guides).
I lived in Europe for 27 years, Hungary, Germany, and all I remember is one blackout lasting one hour.
California is considered by many as the number one state in the number one country, but we can't maintain the bare minimal needs of a functioning civilization.
The overall opinion among Paradise residents is that PG&E is squeezing our balls, showing us the ropes, because they are being sued by everyone and his uncle.
They want to show us they are in power, and in control, and we the peons can complain or drop dead.
Just recently PG&E asked the bankruptcy judge to allow using over $ 10 million to give bonuses to their executives for good performance.
If they would trim the trees near the transmission lines the fire danger from electrical would be more or less eliminated. The fires Paradise had in the past all started outside of the town limits.
What "good performance" would that be? Whaaaa?? And what did the judge say? This should be rich...
OK, good idea, trim the trees around the power lines. No-brainer, right? So, the reason it hasn't been done is....what? Too busy paying bonuses to execs, rather than funding tree-trimming?
mg, thanks for keeping us informed about these things, and about your town's circumstances post-fire. This is a valuable service you're providing.
I'm wondering; have any of the Paradise residents, former residents, written your representatives in Sacramento with constructive suggestions about PG&E? Seems they need legislative oversight or direction about how to allocate their money, if they can't figure out that trees need trimming, and think their CEO's should have bonuses. BTW, how much do those execs get paid already? You all could band together as a group, and voice your concerns and suggestions. Form something like a pressure group, and maybe other communities would join in, like Santa Rosa, etc.
This announcement from PG&E makes me wonder if anyone is re-visiting the cost models of converting overhead power lines to underground power lines.
Since almost of Paradise burned down, is PG&E going to restore the power system there by putting up new power poles and installing overhead power cables? When my mother & step father were alive, they lived for a couple of decades in Paradise, and I visited them frequently. This was in the 1980s & 90s. They lived less than a mile from the Hospital, not far from Pentz Rd. I used to walk and ride my bike all over the area. I remember that almost all the power lines in Paradise were overhead (on utility poles), not in underground conduit systems.
The remaining citizens of Paradise (with backing of Butte County) should petition PG&E to install the new power lines underground. That would eliminate the big hazard of overhead power lines when the wind blows hard. Yes, it costs twice as much to build an underground power system, but it will be a fraction of the cost compared to the risk of burning down Paradise again after it eventually is rebuilt. And, they would not have to shut off the power whenever there is a risk of high winds. This 2019, not 1919. If you have to start over from scratch, you get just one chance to do it right.
Mg, one of the reasons you probably don't remember power outages in Europe, is that overhead power lines to serve cities and towns are almost non-existent. Almost all power lines for local power distribution systems are underground. The only overhead power lines I see in Germany are the big towers for long distance high voltage transmission lines.
We have a generator on natural gas, able to run two homes with everything, so I'm not harping about myself. But we have older people here who are barely able to pump gas in a car, so they wouldn't be able to fire up, gas up, and maintain a generator.
I lived in Europe for 27 years, Hungary, Germany, and all I remember is one blackout lasting one hour.
California is considered by many as the number one state in the number one country, but we can't maintain the bare needs of a functioning civilization.
The opverall opinion among Paradise residents is that PG&E is squeezing our balls, showing us the ropes, because they are being sued by everyone and his uncle.
They want to show us they are in power, and in control, and the peons can complain and drop dead.
I agree with you and this is a great thread. The answer and solution is to collectively show them who's really in charge! In California, I'm not holding my breath while I wait for that to happen. On the other hand, we haven't yet seen them shut down power to millions at a time in the large metros. I'd like to think that might awake a sleeping giant. I'd like to think that....doesn't mean I'd bet on it.
I would have my own generator if I had my own home. But I don't, like many millions of others....and thus we have no such option. The only tool we have is public outrage....and there's going to be plenty if they don't get on a record-breaking fast track to a real solution and let this PSPS nightmare quietly fade from memory.
This announcement from PG&E makes me wonder if anyone is re-visiting the cost models of converting overhead power lines to underground power lines.
Since almost of Paradise burned down, is PG&E going to restore the power system there by putting up new power poles and installing overhead power cables? When my mother & step father were alive, they lived for a couple of decades in Paradise, and I visited them frequently. This was in the 1980s & 90s. They lived less than a mile from the Hospital, not far from Pentz Rd. I used to walk and ride my bike all over the area. I remember that almost all the power lines in Paradise were overhead (on utility poles), not in underground conduit systems.
The remaining citizens of Paradise (with backing of Butte County) should petition PG&E to install the new power lines underground. That would eliminate the big hazard of overhead power lines when the wind blows hard. Yes, it costs twice as much to build an underground power system, but it will be a fraction of the cost compared to the risk of burning down Paradise again after it eventually is rebuilt. And, they would not have to shut off the power whenever there is a risk of high winds. This 2019, not 1919. If you have to start over from scratch, you get just one chance to do it right.
Mg, one of the reasons you probably don't remember power outages in Europe, is that overhead power lines to serve cities and towns are almost non-existent. Almost all power lines for local power distribution systems are underground. The only overhead power lines I see in Germany are the big towers for long distance high voltage transmission lines.
I think this is part of the problem in the US; infrastructure hasn't been funded at the same level as in parts of Europe. We're still creaking along at closer to a 3rd-world system, that was built in the early part of the last century or before. Germany also replaces its water lines on a regular schedule in the cities. When was the last time water lines in your city were replaced? According to reports, many metro areas still are getting by on the original plumbing that was installed when the cities were founded. And the systems are starting to fail, but there are no plans, no budgeting being done, to replace them.
In the US, in neighborhoods of newer construction, phone and electrical lines are put underground, but nothing has been done to retrofit towns and neighborhoods of older construction. And where would the money for that come from? Raising rates or taxes locally.
"The remaining citizens of Paradise (with backing of Butte County) should petition PG&E to install the new power lines underground. That would eliminate the big hazard of overhead power lines when the wind blows hard. "
We don't need to ask. PG&E announced all power lines will go underground. The cost is enormous, the time is 2-4 years, and in the end won't do any good.
I think every fire we had started out of Paradise. BeauCharles, can you verify this?
If we have a fire starting in town the fire department and the neighbors jump on it and one home might burn, but not more. Happens quite often, part of life. The danger is outside of town limits, with no one to watch or call, in extremely difficult terrain with heavy overgrown trees and bushes, no roads to get access.
I read somewhere that there is an option of insulated wires, which won't spark. Not quite sure where I read it, maybe here on CD.
I hate socialism in any form, but sometimes I think we should nationalizing the utilities and allow military discipline and know-how step in and take over their operations. I don't think we'd have 85 people dying in a fire if the United States Marines would oversee our power company.
Please don't bring up the lines at the DMV, we are talking two different subjects here. The greed for profits must be eliminated.
I don't mind if a car dealer or grocery store makes profit of my purchase, but gas and electric are monopolies and looks like the profit-driven leadership is a failure.
As for underground power lines - we had it in Fullerton, Orange County. S C Edison spent two weeks to repair a power outage, they were digging up the street and residents couldn't get their car in or out of the garage. After three days they brought in generators the size of a big U-Haul truck.
Last edited by mgforshort; 06-22-2019 at 10:49 AM..
If you need uninterrupted electrical power you should have a back-up power supply period. Even if you're not in a high risk fire area, you are almost definitely in an earthquake zone.
Please don't bring up the lines at the DMV, we are talking two different subjects here. The greed for profits must be eliminated.
I don't mind if a car dealer or grocery store makes profit of my purchase, but gas and electric are monopolies and looks like the profit-driven leadership is a failure.
The Marines running utilities? Yeah.....no, I don't think so. I'd want better brainpower behind that.
But Seattle and Western WA are run by a public utility. It might be worthwhile to see what the quality of the infrastructure is there (insulated wires? for example, regular tree-trimming schedule?), compared to areas of private utilities in CA.
How do public utility districts in the Sacramento area compare to the private utility districts? There's a study you could do, that's close to home. SMUD vs. PG&E. Do publicly-owned utilities do better maintenance? All I know is, that in the Sac area, SMUD's rates are significantly lower. What does that mean for the quality of the infrastructure, and maintenance? If the quality is the generally the same, then it means they could raise rates, and have a first-class system almost side-by-side with PG&E's funky system. That would be interesting. I wonder how long it would take for ratepayer pressure to force PG&E to be competitive.
Several here have made good suggestions and observations ... NoMoreSnow and HereonMars for example. I’m going to add one:
Trying to cool a full size home with a backup propane generator is going to obviously require a big, expensive unit. Expensive to purchase, install, and maintain and run.
Alternatively:
1. Designate one small room / area of the home that can run cool from a small AC and just run that one from a Honda or similar portable inverter generator unit outside the room window. Those inverter generators are super reliable, quiet and affordable and will run and run and run for days and weeks if necessary on very modest amounts of fuel.
2. Really better yet: buy a small RV, such as a trailer, with a roof AC ... because a very modest (Honda type) generator can run a small AC unit that can keep a small RV cool during heat waves. Many trailers even come with built-in generators/systems. Park the trailer / RV in shade obviously, or alternatively under a carport roof with natural air flow so the second roof acts as a ramada. This way you have full facilities to live in during any extended emergency level events.
This whole topic is a good example of why I often remark about the value of “simplistic living”. Our cultural evolution to large complex housing, with accompanying complexities of accoutrements, gadgetries, ‘labor-saving’ devices, geegaws and gimcracks, toys, electronics .... etc ad infinitum ad nauseam ... and the nightmares of associated hiccups large and small ... is a logistical nightmare at the least.
Live small.
Live simple.
Live sustainably.
Good luck.
Yuppers. I've got a 25 foot TT in the driveway (big driveway) and a twin set of Ryobi quiets ready to rock. A power outage won't even ruffle my feathers. Fifty gallons of fuel I can keep all appliances going for quite some time. Propane fridge for ice.
During the last outage we had I powered up the neighbors fridges too. Long extension cords all good
Heck I might even keep the pool and hot tub running
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And the systems are starting to fail, but there are no plans, no budgeting being done, to replace them. 
