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I think Boise has pretty much anything any middle income person should be purchasing. From what I've seen and heard shopping has greatly improved. Most major department stores are there with the exception of Nordstoms. Macy's in Boise is comparable to a Macy's in a Los Angeles suburb (not quite on par with the higher end Macy's in high end LA malls). I admit that sometimes it is a struggle finding what I like in Boise but for the most part I can usually find something comparable and it wouldn't be a reason for me not to live there.
I agree, it has necessities and a little bit more. I don't expect Boise to be "urban" by any means, but for someone coming and expecting Boise, the biggest city in Idaho, to be anything resembling urban - it could be a shock. There isn't really selection in shopping or restaurants besides chain stores. To the poster above the one I quoted who wondered what people are buying that isn't in Boise, some places I will miss when we move to Boise are:
-Trader Joe's and other smaller grocery stores besides the chain Smith's and Albertsons
-Nordstrom and other more upscale department stores
-more than one mall for shopping
-restaurants that aren't just chain, and some major chain restaurants that seem conspicuously absent
-an airport with cheap direct flights
-more than one university (and Boise State has limited graduate options)
-A GOOD OUTLET MALL...as unimportant and superficial as it is, this may be what I'll miss the most.
I don't consider myself to be superficial, and I am a professionally educated person...but I enjoy shopping as much as the next person. I don't really want to be wearing the same clothes as everyone else because there is only one mall, you know? And - the principle of supply and demand works. When there isn't much competition, you don't get very good deals.
Just some observations to help you understand where I was coming from when I said Boise may not have everything you want.
I agree, it has necessities and a little bit more. I don't expect Boise to be "urban" by any means, but for someone coming and expecting Boise, the biggest city in Idaho, to be anything resembling urban - it could be a shock. There isn't really selection in shopping or restaurantsbesides chain stores. To the poster above the one I quoted who wondered what people are buying that isn't in Boise, some places I will miss when we move to Boise are:
-Trader Joe's and other smaller grocery stores besides the chain Smith's and Albertsons
-Nordstrom and other more upscale department stores
-more than one mall for shopping -restaurants that aren't just chain, and some major chain restaurants that seem conspicuously absent
-an airport with cheap direct flights
-more than one university (and Boise State has limited graduate options)
-A GOOD OUTLET MALL...as unimportant and superficial as it is, this may be what I'll miss the most.
I don't consider myself to be superficial, and I am a professionally educated person...but I enjoy shopping as much as the next person. I don't really want to be wearing the same clothes as everyone else because there is only one mall, you know? And - the principle of supply and demand works. When there isn't much competition, you don't get very good deals.
Just some observations to help you understand where I was coming from when I said Boise may not have everything you want.
Actually lcinva, there are a lot of non-chain restaurants and shops in Boise. Have you visited Boise yet? Downtown is full of local restaurants with some chains thrown in. The restaurant scene downtown is very much local and there are a lot of locally owned boutique shops as well, so I would not necessarily refer to the shopping as all chains. Honestly, look around because the local foody scene is very evident and "chain restaurants" are almost a bad word in downtown.
Take a walk around downtown and check out the selection---malls are not where everything is at or should be at.
There are also non chain restaurants and stores all over the city and valley, just keep your eyes open and don't be blinded by the everyday national chains that every city has.
I am professionaly educated as well, you mentioned you are. One mall doesn't really have a bearing on clothes because in larger cities that have more than one mall usually have the same stores in each mall with the same selection.
I bet if you shop at the many local lady boutiques in downtown and Eagle and the rest of the metro that you would have a wardrobe that everyone else--the mall rats---would not be wearing.
I have heard some people say that the shopping in Boise, mainly boutiques, is much more fulfilling than larger cities such as Salt Lake and more on par with what Portland offers but on a smaller scale.
As for smaller grocers check out Boise Co-Op, Pauls Markets etc. We have a Whole Foods on the way and it is a nice thought, but it is also a chain. Support local first and our lovely Co-Op.
btw, there is not a Smith's grocery store anywhere in Western Idaho.
Last edited by Syringaloid; 09-03-2008 at 12:32 PM..
Actually lcinva, there are a lot of non-chain restaurants and shops in Boise. Have you visited Boise yet? Downtown is full of local restaurants with some chains thrown in. The restaurant scene downtown is very much local and there are a lot of locally owned boutique shops as well, so I would not necessarily refer to the shopping as all chains. Honestly, look around because the local foody scene is very evident and "chain restaurants" are almost a bad word in downtown.
Take a walk around downtown and check out the selection---malls are not where everything is at or should be at.
There are also non chain restaurants and stores all over the city and valley, just keep your eyes open and don't be blinded by the everyday national chains that every city has.
I am professionaly educated as well, you mentioned you are. One mall doesn't really have a bearing on clothes because in larger cities that have more than one mall usually have the same stores in each mall with the same selection.
I bet if you shop at the many local lady boutiques in downtown and Eagle and the rest of the metro that you would have a wardrobe that everyone else--the mall rats---would not be wearing.
I have heard some people say that the shopping in Boise, mainly boutiques, is much more fulfilling than larger cities such as Salt Lake and more on par with what Portland offers but on a smaller scale.
As for smaller grocers check out Boise Co-Op, Pauls Markets etc. We have a Whole Foods on the way and it is a nice thought, but it is also a chain. Support local first and our lovely Co-Op.
btw, there is not a Smith's grocery store anywhere in Western Idaho.
Very true, Syringaloid. I can concede to Icinva that Boise is not exactly Manhattan or South Beach as far as upscale shopping and urban surroundings. Also, Boise's outlet mall leaves something to be desired compared to outlets in more populous areas.
Still, there is a lot to be said for options in Boise. In a way, Boise does present more options than a larger city, because the cheaper rent allows more small, upstart businesses to set up shop. Boise is plentiful in the way of unique delis and sushi joints, as well as any ethnic food you want, for that matter. As you pointed out, Syringaloid, the key is to explore the area. Boise is meant to be explored beyond the phone book. Just one read of the Boise Weekly will shatter any pre-conceived notions that Boise doesn't have a thriving underground/night culture, too. Once again, you just have to explore more than the phone book.
I also agree that places with numerous malls do still lack variety between those malls, and malls tend to be overpriced, as you (and shopkeepers) have to pay for their convenience (and higher probability of impulse shoppers).
Also, very agreed that a local co-op is far more true to the intention espoused by Whole Foods and Trader Joe's, though both of those were a pleasant thing to discover here in New Mexico. Especially nice to find quality Andouille and Chorizo sausage for Southeast and Southwest cooking, respectively! I would've loved a Trader Joe's in college, though I wouldn't have been able to afford it, all the same. Really, though, it's a short matter of time before those places realize Boise's true size due to its "metro area".
On that note, I think Icinva will be pleasantly surprised by the shopping options and population of the Treasure Valley. When you read Boise population stats, you might as well factor in Meridian, Eagle, Nampa, Caldwell, Garden City, Middleton, and even Star. There are a lot of unincorporated towns that, for all intensive purposes of infrastructure planning and business feasibility, are part of Boise. Aside from signs, you'd be unaware that you left the official boundaries of the city of Boise. (Note that, due to this technicality of close-by, unincorporated townships, your tax money will go further in your specific vicinity when you live somewhere outside Boise, but the pool will be less. Good to note if you're looking at schools, emergency response, parks, etc.)
Very helpful info !! Please continue to share your insights with us !
p.s.
5 reps from me !
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby McGee
1. Access to outdoor activities: Boise wins. Getting into the mountains and recreational spots from Denver requires a longer drive than to comparable places from Boise.
Not really, particularly if you live on west side of town (Lakewood, Bear Creek, Wheat Ridge, etc.). Also, I would say quality of recreational spots is higher for Denver. Colorado ski areas are far superior. Bogus Basin is closer but it is a very dicey drive and pales in comparison to areas such as Winter Park, Copper Mountain, Loveland, etc. - all easy to reach for day skiers from Denver. Weekend ski traffic can be bad, but if you live in Colorado you can avoid it by skiing on weekdays. 4 lane interstate each way unlike 2 lane roads in Idaho.
Hiking in Colorado superior, IMO, because scenic foothills/mountains are closer than in Idaho. From Boise you have to drive a ways to get to where the trees are. Many barren hillsides - kind of drab, with trees only at the highest elevations. Mountains outside Denver are tree clad (although beetles are working on that!!)
Boise does have better river rafting/kayaking w/ Payette River so nearby.
2. Future economic health and vitality: ? wins. I wish I had a crystal ball. For Boise I read mixed reports on the conditions of companies and industry in the area. Denver is bigger and may be able to withstand econonomic downturn.
Think this is a difficult comparison as Denver is much larger city. Also, Colorado is a much more populous state. Colorado is positioning itself nicely in tech, "green" alternative energy, etc., and has major universities, NOAA, etc.
3. Air quality: Even. At least according to this website: epa.gov/air/data/geosel.html
Both have their issues, particularly in winter months.
4. Climate: Even? Fairly similar it appears. Both dry climates. Boise temperatures are higher on average.
Boise's temp may be higher on average, but this means much hotter summers. Denver summer days typically cool down in early evening due to mountains to west and frequent monsoon thunderstorms. Boise cooks with no mountains to west to provide shade and it is frequently sweltering, w/ hot sun late into the evening. Also, no rain to speak of in Boise in July/August.
Many more sunny days in winter in Denver. Definitely more snow in Denver.
5. Restaurants: Denver wins.
Agree, by a large margin, but again that's partly a function of larger size.
6. Place to raise a family: ? This is intangible, and it would depend on the family, but for any objective criteria there may be, I guess I am not familiar enough with each city to determine what they are and which city wins.
This will vary by family I suspect. Denver has excellent school districts in its suburbs, and no offense to Boise State, but I believe superior quality higher education at University of Colorado, Colo. State and Colorado College. Average educational level in Denver is quite high relative to national average.
Our kids have had much more fun in Denver area. In Boise they missed things such as amusement park, major acquarium, superior museums, pro sports teams, Dave and Busters . . . .
On the contrary, Boise/Eagle has nice parks, is very safe, people are friendly and helpful.
If you are moving there from a larger city, Boise might feel a bit isolated. Denver has Boulder, Fort Collins, Colorado Springs very nearby. Each is an interesting place to visit. Not much in terms of cities to note on I-84 for significant distances either way out of Boise. That may be a good thing depending on your perspective, but it was noticeable to us in Boise.
7. Anything else?
Denver airport is not as user friendly, but so many more direct flight options more than compensates. Going to Mexico or a number of other destinations from Boise and you are likely to switch planes in Denver. However, where there are nonstops from Boise I'd take it any day w/ convenient parking, etc.
Denver is within a reasonable drive of more interesting places, IMO than Boise. Mountain towns - not just ski area towns - such as Salida, Pagosa Springs and Durango, and possible day trips to Santa Fe, Moab, Grand Lake.
No (or not much) poison ivy in Denver. Gotta watch that even by Boise River on Greenbelt.
Idahoans are good people and are justifiably proud of where they live. It's better than the vast majority of the rest of the country IMO. They can be a little touchy, however, about anything they perceive as criticism of Boise, etc. Denver is much less homogenous w/ many fewer natives, and less concerned about how it is perceived.
Having lived in both places I would say you can't conclusively say one is a clear cut superior alternative. Depends on what you are looking for and where you are coming from. For me, the answer happens to be Denver.
You are NOT alone in feeling this way Icinva !! I get by, but I do miss not having more shopping choices . And don't get me started on the 'nightmare' that Boise Town Square Mall is during the Christmas season !!! I've learned to NOT go near there after Thanksgiving till after the 2nd week of January ! Well actually, I've stopped shopping at the mall totally now, as I'm not particularly fond of any of the stores there and I've got everything I need for right now !
p.s.
Don't bother trying to explain yourself to the Martians on here either - lol! (Mens are from Mars and Women are from Venus you know :-0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by lcinva
I agree, it has necessities and a little bit more. I don't expect Boise to be "urban" by any means, but for someone coming and expecting Boise, the biggest city in Idaho, to be anything resembling urban - it could be a shock. There isn't really selection in shopping or restaurants besides chain stores. To the poster above the one I quoted who wondered what people are buying that isn't in Boise, some places I will miss when we move to Boise are:
-Trader Joe's and other smaller grocery stores besides the chain Smith's and Albertsons
-Nordstrom and other more upscale department stores
-more than one mall for shopping
-restaurants that aren't just chain, and some major chain restaurants that seem conspicuously absent
-an airport with cheap direct flights
-more than one university (and Boise State has limited graduate options)
-A GOOD OUTLET MALL...as unimportant and superficial as it is, this may be what I'll miss the most.
I don't consider myself to be superficial, and I am a professionally educated person...but I enjoy shopping as much as the next person. I don't really want to be wearing the same clothes as everyone else because there is only one mall, you know? And - the principle of supply and demand works. When there isn't much competition, you don't get very good deals.
Just some observations to help you understand where I was coming from when I said Boise may not have everything you want.
And don't get me started on the 'nightmare' that Boise Town Square Mall is during the Christmas season !!!
LOL... so very true. I think most natives have adapted to avoid the mall like a cage of hyenas during holiday season. Usually, even all their sales are fake, too. The best time for Christmas shopping is October everywhere, though, isn't it? I prefer finding presents when stuff is in stock and I don't have to wear football pads.
Also, good one on the Martian comment. Also so very true. While I have a well-constructed feminine side, it certainly does not include shopping or makeovers (in case you couldn't tell by my prior Martian-centric comment). More just cooking, crafts, kittens, chatting for hours on the phone, and getting choked up over tragic family dramas. Seriously... not being sarcastic. Actually, cooking can be very masculine, so sorry to all the culinary artists out there.
The mall will have more suburban competition once the new lifestyle center in Meridian (which is ready to start construction) and the other announced for Eagle are completed.
I avoid the crowds by shopping downtown during the Christmas season.
OMG, I thought this was just me when I lived there. I never have seen a mall get like that at Christmas time except for Boise Town Square. I used to avoid it like the plague as well during that time of year and do my shopping during the week on days off. As for the restaurant scene I think it's great for the size of Boise. In fact that is what I miss the most are all the great restaurant's downtown especially Bardenay! Whenever I am in town to visit friends it's a must stop. When my parents would visit from Portland they would always comment on what a great restaurant selection we had. I also miss the weather I loved having four seasons.
DARN !!!! I didn't think anyone here was sharp enough to catch that one stingraynm!!! Alrighty then , I guess that you merit a couple cookies from me for that catch .
Okay, now back on topic peeps!
Note to self: Must find new ways to trick and deceive the newbians!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by stingraynm
LOL... so very true. I think most natives have adapted to avoid the mall like a cage of hyenas during holiday season. Usually, even all their sales are fake, too. The best time for Christmas shopping is October everywhere, though, isn't it? I prefer finding presents when stuff is in stock and I don't have to wear football pads.
Also, good one on the Martian comment. Also so very true. While I have a well-constructed feminine side, it certainly does not include shopping or makeovers (in case you couldn't tell by my prior Martian-centric comment). More just cooking, crafts, kittens, chatting for hours on the phone, and getting choked up over tragic family dramas. Seriously... not being sarcastic. Actually, cooking can be very masculine, so sorry to all the culinary artists out there.
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Great 1st post Bobby McGee!
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. And don't get me started on the 'nightmare' that Boise Town Square Mall is during the Christmas season 
! Well actually, I've stopped shopping at the mall totally now, as I'm not particularly fond of any of the stores there and I've got everything I need for right now 
Seriously... not being sarcastic. Actually, cooking can be very masculine, so sorry to all the culinary artists out there.
, I guess that you merit a couple cookies from me for that catch 
