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Middle? He probably has 2-3 years left in his prime as the best player on a potentially successful team.
Yeah, he is in his prime. And you know when players are in their prime? In the middle of their careers. Even if he "probably has 2 or 3 years left in his prime" he could still play another 7 or 8 years (especially since guards typically last longer than big men). So yes, this is the middle of his career. Come back and ask this question again when he is at the end of his career and has possibly won something by then (he still has plenty of time).
I would be surprised to see him play 7-8, it's the level at which he does that's in question on that. 2-3 yrs at his current level. I don't see him playing at a Steve Nash level in mid to late 30s
Yeah, he is in his prime. And you know when players are in their prime? In the middle of their careers. Even if he "probably has 2 or 3 years left in his prime" he could still play another 7 or 8 years (especially since guards typically last longer than big men). So yes, this is the middle of his career. Come back and ask this question again when he is at the end of his career and has possibly won something by then (he still has plenty of time).
I don't believe you understand the point. Superstars are typically judged by how they perform in their prime. That's where a player defines their legacy. Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, Jordan, Bird, Magic, etc had all cemented their legacy by the age of 33. If 34 yr old Chris Paul is past his prime, his numbers/efficiency are way down and he wins a championship by hooking up with prime Durant/Westbrook - that's not the same as winning on a team as the leader and best player (as he's been in LA for 4 years). When he's past his best, he becomes a good role player. It's like Jason Kidd winning a ring at 37 - his legacy would be analyzed in a totally different light had he won in his prime at 25-33.
I don't believe you understand the point. Superstars are typically judged by how they perform in their prime.
My point is that his prime is not even over yet (you said yourself he has a good 2 to 3 prime years left...a lot could happen by then) , so it's stupid to even ask what his "legacy" is at this point.
Last edited by NoClueWho; 05-22-2015 at 11:58 AM..
My point is that his prime is not even over yet (you said yourself he has a good 2 to 3 prime years left...a lot could happen by then) , so it's stupid to even ask what his "legacy" is at this point.
It's definitely time to talk legacy if you're a basketball fan. 2-3 years doesn't give him much time and we have the past 4-5 seasons as evidence to how the next 2-3 might go. Paul will actually be 31 years old by the time the playoffs roll around next year. I can guarantee you Chris Paul has given thought to what his legacy is shaping up to be.
I think it would be nice for Chris and his legacy if he got far and won a title, no doubt. But, he is what he is and to me, that means if he got to the finals and won the title this year, he doesn't automatically become a better player, he's as good as he's going to ever be, right now, and we know how good that is, if they won the title his basketball IQ and physical skills won't improve, he won't jump higher, pass or shoot better, his career is defined already because he's not going to improve, the ceiling has been reached and he is what he is at this point as an individual talent.
As far as never leading his team, anything he did in New Orleans doesn't count, there's no chance that team was ever going to advance past the 1st or 2nd round anyway, they were a fringe team who only GOT to the playoffs in the first place because of Chris. His Clippers career is what you define him on because they are the team who COULD go all the way. This recent series vs Houston was Chris' worst moment, the other serieses in previous years were hard battles, the Clippers lost to good teams but mainly lost due to injuries and bad seeding, the year they played Memphis the entire team was hurt and they had to basically fly to San Antonio the next day and play a game, no way they were going to win THAT series.
The only time to me that he SHOULD HAVE been to the 3rd round was this year, i can't tell you what happened to the Clippers, this was the year that CP3 needed to advance and for some odd reason, he did not.
Was this year's loss on HIM? Did he play poorly and cost them the series? Or, was it a weak bench that was their undoing? probably a little of both.
It would have been nice if the Clippers didn't have to play the Spurs in round 1, if they played a cupcake team like Houston did in the first round, they probably win the 2nd round.
It is hard to defend him after their collapse vs Houston, but visually i didn't see that it was his fault the team just stopped playing, although he does have to take some of the blame for sure.
If he gets knocked out early next year, i'll revisit this with a new opinion, i think he's really out of chances at this point, Clips are built to win NOW and he has to get them over the hump.
Chris Paul is an outstanding player, his skills are supreme for his position and I think he's one of the best true point guards we've had since Magic Johnson.
It is just that Chris says he knows the pressure is on him. He says his expectations are a title and championship, and by the tone in his voice, you can tell he's being very serious. So year-after-year Chris has to state the same thing over and over again. The number of times he's had to explain why he fell short is insurmountable for a superstar player in today's NBA. At some point people need to realize that Chris isn't the only guy on his team but Chris needs to realize that if it is not working out, then he needs to take over the game and make it work.
Chris fails to take it to the next level in crunch time, often in the second round, and that is why his Clippers teams have lost in almost every concievable fashion before reaching the Western Conference Finals. They always meltdown. Remember the year they were swept by the Spurs, then the next year they went by 2 games on the Grizzlies to make it 2-0, only to then go on and realize the next 4 straight, in addition to Clippers emotions going through a meltdown in that final game - including Chris Paul's ejection for hitting Marc Gasol in the nuts. Then they regrouped, focused in on a goal the next year and peaked as a franchise by going 57-25, securing home court in the first round at least, and getting the Pacific Division. All this only to have a scandal unravel at the worst possible time and emotionally derail that team into a Game 5 screw up, which ended up being the nail in their coffin as they were eliminated in Game 6 of the second round versus the Thunder.
Then there is this year, to be up 3-1 and winning the close out game by 19 towards the beginning of the 4th quarter to meltdown like that and lose the game, first of all, then the next game, then the third game, and the entire series is disgusting.
This Clippers team is making a name for itself as an emotionally unstable and widely afflicted chokejob of a crew.
Sums up the Los Angeles Clippers nicely. They slayed a dragon, only to die momentarily afterwards by a bee-sting. Obviously the Rockets are a good team, on par with the Clippers, but they forked over a series and let Los Angeles go up 3-1, the pressure was on Houston and they came back in a way that just completely disgraced the Clippers. That was their lowest point on court in franchise history (Sterling Scandal didn't actually take place on the hardwood).
Chris Paul isn't getting any younger either, he's 30 now and the time he has to pad his career resume is running out.
Even guys that never won a ring like Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, or John Stockton, among other notables at least played for a chance to the title in the NBA Finals.
Chris' career isn't over, he has several years left but point guards typically decline physically age 31-32, they're the smallest guys on the floor and have to take so much contact on drives, his window is closing rather quickly now. He needs to make the most of the years he has left, especially the elite years he has left.
People will remember "Chris Paul led the Clippers to the NBA Finals" even if he doesn't win, at the minimum.
Chris Paul is an outstanding player, his skills are supreme for his position and I think he's one of the best true point guards we've had since Magic Johnson.
It is just that Chris says he knows the pressure is on him. He says his expectations are a title and championship, and by the tone in his voice, you can tell he's being very serious. So year-after-year Chris has to state the same thing over and over again. The number of times he's had to explain why he fell short is insurmountable for a superstar player in today's NBA. At some point people need to realize that Chris isn't the only guy on his team but Chris needs to realize that if it is not working out, then he needs to take over the game and make it work.
Chris fails to take it to the next level in crunch time, often in the second round, and that is why his Clippers teams have lost in almost every concievable fashion before reaching the Western Conference Finals. They always meltdown. Remember the year they were swept by the Spurs, then the next year they went by 2 games on the Grizzlies to make it 2-0, only to then go on and realize the next 4 straight, in addition to Clippers emotions going through a meltdown in that final game - including Chris Paul's ejection for hitting Marc Gasol in the nuts. Then they regrouped, focused in on a goal the next year and peaked as a franchise by going 57-25, securing home court in the first round at least, and getting the Pacific Division. All this only to have a scandal unravel at the worst possible time and emotionally derail that team into a Game 5 screw up, which ended up being the nail in their coffin as they were eliminated in Game 6 of the second round versus the Thunder.
Then there is this year, to be up 3-1 and winning the close out game by 19 towards the beginning of the 4th quarter to meltdown like that and lose the game, first of all, then the next game, then the third game, and the entire series is disgusting.
This Clippers team is making a name for itself as an emotionally unstable and widely afflicted chokejob of a crew.
Sums up the Los Angeles Clippers nicely. They slayed a dragon, only to die momentarily afterwards by a bee-sting. Obviously the Rockets are a good team, on par with the Clippers, but they forked over a series and let Los Angeles go up 3-1, the pressure was on Houston and they came back in a way that just completely disgraced the Clippers. That was their lowest point on court in franchise history (Sterling Scandal didn't actually take place on the hardwood).
The year they were swept by the spurs, they had a grinding hard series vs Memphis, everyone was injured on the team, i mean all 5 starters had injuries, Butler was injured, Paul had injuries, Blake was playing injured, etc not to mention the Spurs were sitting home resting while the Clippers had to fly to SA basically the next day to play, they had no shot in that series, it wasn't Paul's fault they lost that one to an all time great team who was rested and ready and at home.
The problem i have with the Clippers is that i don't know what happened in the Rockets series in the last 3 games. They were spectacular in the first 4 games, but they were the same team, right? They had the same players but the stuff you are saying here and now could have been said when the Clippers had a 3-1 lead vs Houston after beating the Spurs in a hard fought 7 game series.
Were you thinking this exact post in your head when the Clips Rockets series was 3-1 and just never got around to posting it? Or, is the last 3 games of the Houston series what you're basing this entire post on?
The reason i bring this up is because what happened to the Clippers in the last 3 games vs the Rockets didn't appear to be CP3s fault. We also don't know how injured he was during this series, sure, he played, but was he 100 pct? No possible way he was.
I agree with you that this Rockets debacle was the lowest point in franchise history bar none. And, that the Rockets are in the process of being swept by GS makes it even worse.
I wish i was able to figure out what happened in those last 3 games, i do think part of the series was that in the Clippers 3 wins up until that point, they won so easily that they just had it in their heads that there was no way the Rockets could ever beat them, and they just took the foot off the pedal and decided that they were going to let the Rockets "go away" and they just didn't go away enough.
The year they were swept by the spurs, they had a grinding hard series vs Memphis, everyone was injured on the team, i mean all 5 starters had injuries, Butler was injured, Paul had injuries, Blake was playing injured, etc not to mention the Spurs were sitting home resting while the Clippers had to fly to SA basically the next day to play, they had no shot in that series, it wasn't Paul's fault they lost that one to an all time great team who was rested and ready and at home.
The problem i have with the Clippers is that i don't know what happened in the Rockets series in the last 3 games. They were spectacular in the first 4 games, but they were the same team, right? They had the same players but the stuff you are saying here and now could have been said when the Clippers had a 3-1 lead vs Houston after beating the Spurs in a hard fought 7 game series.
Were you thinking this exact post in your head when the Clips Rockets series was 3-1 and just never got around to posting it? Or, is the last 3 games of the Houston series what you're basing this entire post on?
The reason i bring this up is because what happened to the Clippers in the last 3 games vs the Rockets didn't appear to be CP3s fault. We also don't know how injured he was during this series, sure, he played, but was he 100 pct? No possible way he was.
I agree with you that this Rockets debacle was the lowest point in franchise history bar none. And, that the Rockets are in the process of being swept by GS makes it even worse.
I wish i was able to figure out what happened in those last 3 games, i do think part of the series was that in the Clippers 3 wins up until that point, they won so easily that they just had it in their heads that there was no way the Rockets could ever beat them, and they just took the foot off the pedal and decided that they were going to let the Rockets "go away" and they just didn't go away enough.
Well let's think about this for a second.... What changed for the clippers?
Here I'll make it easy, Chris Paul changed for the clippers. He was out 2 games, played limited minutes early in the series. As his minutes increased the rockets new what would happen, they just needed to let Paul "win the game" for the clippers and while he was playing hero ball (odd that the nba would use that tag line this year) the rockets could force him to beat them and not the rest of the team. It's the exact same strategy that the Spurs used vs the Suns for years. When Paul wasn't in the floor the rockets had no idea who would be stepping up (outside of Blake). Paul killed his team just bring Chris paul
The problem i have with the Clippers is that i don't know what happened in the Rockets series in the last 3 games. They were spectacular in the first 4 games, but they were the same team, right? They had the same players but the stuff you are saying here and now could have been said when the Clippers had a 3-1 lead vs Houston after beating the Spurs in a hard fought 7 game series.
That is because the Clippers play strong to begin a game or series and then they fade away as the game or series progresses. That has been how they have been ever since the Blake Griffin, DeAndre Jordan, and the Lob City era started. That was the case this year against the Rockets too, it was the case last year against the Thunder, it was the case the year before against the Grizzlies too. It has been the case three years straight.
The Rockets are the exact opposite, they are a tougher second half team and bring it out more towards the end of games and the series.
If they had Patrick Beverley and Donatas Motiejunas to lock up Chris Paul and Blake Griffin, they wouldn't have needed 7 games and an "almost got away series" to put away the Clippers. Each of those guys would have somewhat defensively have stopped the Clippers, limiting their star players, and Houston's execution would be much more precise.
The Warriors were going to sweep the Rockets either way, that team is in a league of its own. The only reason the Grizzlies won two games is because they played a style of basketball that the Warriors aren't generally used to playing against (slowed down, interior banging bodies, so on) and it took the Warriors a couple of games to figure it out. Once they figured it out in the 4th quarter of Game 3, they put the Grizzlies away immediately in the next three games after that straight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wall st kid
Were you thinking this exact post in your head when the Clips Rockets series was 3-1 and just never got around to posting it? Or, is the last 3 games of the Houston series what you're basing this entire post on?
Kind of.
I had picked the Rockets to win the series against the Clippers but I know the Rockets AND Clippers well. They (the Rockets) start things off very disinterested and don't really show up until their backs are against the wall and they have to produce. So I also knew it was going to be a lengthy series.
What I didn't know was that the Clippers would take the 3-1 lead, at that point I thought the Rockets were done and winning Game 5 was just prolonging their eventual elimination by a game. After they won Game 6 decisively, I lost all shock and knew they would close the Clippers out in Game 7.
I have watched both teams from afar, as a spectator Lakers fan, and I have seen the Clippers collapse like that quite a few teams this year.
On February 4th, the Los Angeles Clippers epically collapsed against the Toronto Raptors, much the EXACT SAME WAY they did in Game 6 against the Rockets.
At one point in the game, the Clippers were up by 20+ points over the Raptors and had them on the ropes in every facet, then they did that thing they always randomly do sometimes and choked away the win epically, mind you.
That wasn't the only time, they did this against the Trail Blazers (when they were up by 16 towards the middle of the third quarter), Pelicans (they led by as much as 17 only to choke it away), and the Brooklyn Nets too. This is the first year I've seen them play like this and choke in this manner but it has been a development for them ALL SEASON and wasn't just some random thing that happened against the Rockets in the second round.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wall st kid
I wish i was able to figure out what happened in those last 3 games
There is no mystery. The Clippers choked and the second round wasn't the first time this season they choked that way either. See above.
I wasn't surprised by what they had done. They did it last year against the Thunder, albeit no where near as embarassingly. They did match the embarassment the year before against the Grizzlies when they took Game 1 and Game 2, only to lose the next 4 straight to Memphis along with the series.
They do this a lot, especially when it matters.
That isn't on Chris Paul's shoulders because he cant control all 15 guys on the team and make them execute when it matters, but Chris Paul is wasting away his career playing for a team that quite frankly is always going to come up short.
Next year the Warriors will still be around. The Spurs will probably get even better. The Thunder will be fully healthy and 100%, meaning they'll be better than the Clippers.
The Clippers, Rockets, and Grizzlies are about the same level. All of them had last year and this year as a window to get things done, but they didn't and now the West will be even more competitive next year and none of these three teams will be seen as elite as those former three clubs (Spurs, Warriors, Thunder).
If it makes Clippers, Rockets, and Grizzlies fans feel better, they're still a level superior to the Trail Blazers, Mavericks, and Pelicans.
I obviously think that the Clippers have mental issues at executing at the timeframe when they should, but I thoroughly enjoy watching the team. They are funny guys, the acting they do and how they try to sell flops to the referees and then argue and pile on technicals. They are an entertaining bunch, but not a championship caliber bunch. I think they are pretenders and not contenders.
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