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Scoring: Kobe is a volume scorer, LeBron is an efficient scorer. Take your pick. Kobe will give you the occasional explosion (like 81, 62 in 3 quarters) but he'll also give you really inefficient games like 6-28, 17-47, etc. LeBron will consistently giveyou 28-30 points shooting at over 50%, but I don't think he'll crack 80 anytime soon.
Passing: LeBron easily. Rebounding: LeBron easily. On-Ball Defense: Close, but LeBron can guard 5 positions. So I give him the nod. Off-Ball defense: LeBron Efficiency: LeBron easily Playoff Performing: Pretty close. Both have had good and bad moments. I'll say Kobe, but LeBron can catch him. Impact on team: LeBron without question. Clutch: Kobe easily. Durability: Durability isn't the ability to play through injury, it's the ability to AVOID injury. So LeBron.
When will the comparisons stop? They are on 2 different levels. Lebron clearly prefers to get other more involved and Kobe prefers to carry all the weight. Leave it alone, its dead.
Kobe's first 8 playoff seasons vs. Lebron's first 8:
Kobe 1-7.
Lebron 7-17.
Kobe has played 220 career playoff games and has taken 24 such shots. 220/24= 1 such shot attempt for every 9.2 playoff games.
Lebron has played 138 career playoff games, and has taken 17 such shots. 138/17= 1 such shot attempt for every 8.1 playoff games.
So people's argument is that even though Kobe makes fewer clutch shots, at least he attempts more clutch shots? And even that's not true.
In all years, in the playoffs, in the 4th quarter or overtime, scoring margin between -5 and 5 points, sorted by descending Field Goals.
Kobe's 15 playoff runs vs. Lebron's 8 playoff runs:
Kobe 167/424 (39.4%)
Lebron 180/403 (44.7%)
Lebron has made more fourth quarter/overtime shots in close playoff games than Kobe, with fewer attempts, and despite playing only 138 playoff games as opposed to Kobe's 220.
Kobe's last second, off-balance, 1-on-3 isolation fadeaways look very clutch when they go in, they just don't go in very often. And their predictability makes the defense's job much easier.
Of course, years after the fact, no one remembers all the bricks. They just remember the ones that went in.
Quote:
Memory gaps and errors refer to the incorrect recall, or complete loss, of information in the memory system for a specific detail and/or event. Memory errors may include remembering events that never occurred, or remembering them differently from the way they actually happened.[1] These errors or gaps can occur due to a number of different reasons, including the emotional involvement in the situation, expectations and environmental changes. As the retention interval between encoding and retrieval of the memory lengthens, there is an increase in both the amount that is forgetten, and the likelihood of a memory error occurring.
Although Jordan was much better on clutch shots and in big games than Kobe, you see the same selective memory with him and all the hyperbolic nostalgia that surrounds him with people acting like he never shot below 50% in important playoff games and never missed shots in crucial moments.
Last edited by EugeneOnegin; 06-22-2013 at 09:49 AM..
Kobe's first 8 playoff seasons vs. Lebron's first 8:
Kobe 1-7.
Lebron 7-17.
Kobe has played 220 career playoff games and has taken 24 such shots. 220/24= 1 such shot attempt for every 9.2 playoff games.
Lebron has played 138 career playoff games, and has taken 17 such shots. 138/17= 1 such shot attempt for every 8.1 playoff games.
So people's argument is that even though Kobe makes fewer clutch shots, at least he attempts more clutch shots? And even that's not true.
Obviously people are talking in general, not just playoffs. You can see who rises up in the hard times more, thats why everyone likes Kobe in that regard. Anyway, I appreciate the extra work you did, I surely wouldn't put up that effort lol.
Obviously people are talking in general, not just playoffs. You can see who rises up in the hard times more, thats why everyone likes Kobe in that regard. Anyway, I appreciate the extra work you did, I surely wouldn't put up that effort lol.
It wasn't much effort actually, thanks to basketball-reference's shot finder. That site is a gold mine. Mostly just a couple minutes of adding up some numbers on a calculator.
I would do Jordan's too but the shot finder only goes back to like 2001 or 2002 as far as I know.
In the clutch Kobe missed a lot of shots (mostly very high degree of difficulty ones), and made the defense predictable and easy to guard. His teams often won in spite of his play so his misses are forgotten more. For example, when he missed the ~5 foot runner against the Kings, Shaq got the rebound and misses the layup, then Divac tipped the ball out to Robert Horry who drained the 3. That type of thing has happened a lot in his career, with Horry, Fisher, and others hitting big shots when Kobe is missing, and he has always had great front courts that cover up a lot his mistakes.
Lebron has been incredible in the playoffs at times, and extremely underwhelming at other times, but he almost always comes up big in elimination games and with his back against the wall. I wouldn't say he isn't clutch, but he isn't consistent. It's kind of a Jekyll and Hyde thing with him. Part of that is probably lack of faith in his jumper. He has never had the interior players to cover up his mistakes and make up for his bad stretches though. His teams have very rarely won when he played poorly, while Kobe's often did win when he played poorly (e.g. 6-24 game 7 against the Celtics). He did get a lot of help these past two years with Miller and Battier hitting 3s in the finals, and with Ray Allen hitting that big 3 in game 6.
Overall, I would have more faith in Lebron to close out a series and carry a team.
Jordan was the most consistent of the 3. He didn't have as many bad games as either Lebron or Kobe. His FG% was higher and more consistent, and he made a higher percentage of big shots. He had better teams than Lebron, but not as good as Kobe. He had a more well rounded offensive arsenal than Lebron which made it harder to limit his scoring. His offensive arsenal was maybe not quite as well rounded as Kobe's, but he was a more efficient scorer. I don't think Jordan was asked to do quite as much outside of scoring as Lebron though. And at this age Jordan was only 2/3 of the way through the first 3-peat, so it's an incomplete comparison.
The whole idea of "clutch" is really way overblown though. So many times it comes down to things happening in games that are practically random (lucky bounces, defensive mistakes, etc.), and we're dealing with fairly small sample sizes with little context in trying to determine who's clutch and who's a choker with no gray area. A lot variables aren't factored in, what we remember is selective and not based on reality much of the time.
Its hard to compare them by age and years considering Jordan played 3 years of college ball, while Lebron was a freak of nature when he came into the league out of high school . Jordan's advantage over everyone was his talent and competitiveness, Lebron while is not only super talented, he's a huge dude. 6'8" and what 270lb. Jordan was 6'6" and 220-225.
Kobe went a long time before a serious injury got him, but even Kobe who keeps himself in top shape got hurt eventually. Lebron may only have 3-4 years of prime left in him, he has alot of miles on his legs already between the regular season and all the playoff games.
Last edited by James420; 06-22-2013 at 11:11 AM..
Reason: H
Its hard to compare them by age and years considering Jordan played 3 years of college ball, while Lebron was a freak of nature when he came into the league out of high school . Jordan's advantage over everyone was his talent and competitiveness, Lebron while is not only super talented, he's a huge dude. 6'8" and what 270lb. Jordan was 6'6" and 220-225.
I think it's the fairest way to compare the two, except when comparing accumulated stats since Lebron will likely have more seasons to accumulate total points, rebounds, assists, etc. Kobe as well.
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Originally Posted by James420
Kobe went a long time before a serious injury got him, but even Kobe who keeps himself in top shape got hurt eventually. Lebron may only have 3-4 years of prime left in him, he has alot of miles on his legs already between the regular season and all the playoff games.
Kevin Garnett has a lot of miles on him and he's 37 and has not missed much time. Moses Malone was straight out of high school as well and didn't start missing games until 37. Kobe has stayed pretty healthy and at 34 was putting numbers very similar to what Jordan was at that age even though he had played a lot more games. Karl Malone average 20 ppg at 39 years old.
It's mostly about genetics, how well they take care of themselves, and luck. Lebron has always been in good shape and has never had a serious injury, so I'm guessing he probably has quite a while to go before he starts declining. He'll have to change his game somewhat when his athleticism starts declining though. He could probably transition to power forward late in his career and be very effective.
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