Buying Older, but Low Mileage Cars ... what are the Pitfalls? (idle, brakes)

[atgss]

Originally Posted by Kdbaker58

The seller says he just got the vehicle last week. It's a used car place with several stores in the southeast. The first thing the salesman said when he walked up was, "you can't beat the price on that car!" Asking is $5450. After looking at it, even with my untrained eye, I think he's probably right. There is a shop on the premises and I honestly think he may have done some work on the car. As I said, the hoses look new and the engine is super clean. I do suppose that could be to hide any signs if leakage, but that would be cynical. There is something wrong with the stereo, but I could live with that.

First thing: Look up the customer reviews of this used car lot.

Second thing: Get a mechanic if either or the customer reviews are favorable or can't find any if you still want to check out this car.

Third thing: If any doubts - run away.

[iskerbibel]

Originally Posted by Kdbaker58

So isker, you seem to have sfome experience with older cars. Is 2000 in that catagory? I saw the Century from my earlier post. It looks like new. Hoses are pliable, tires seem great. Engine is very clean. Of course there's no way for me to check the seals, but if the rest of the car is any indication of their condition, I don't think I have anything to worry about. Thoughts?

I can't categorically recommend this car... nor tell you to run away. It depends on what you want out of it.

Mechanically, this is essentially the same car as my 2001 Chevy Lumina. It's slow and boring, but very cheap and reliable. And durable IF you stay on top of certain inherent problems. Like I said earlier, it's at 242,000 miles and still runs well. And it gets reasonably good gas mileage.

That said, you're looking at a 12 year old car. I can guarantee 100% that it WILL need some repairs- minor ones at least. There's no getting around it- I don't care if it has only 100 miles on it. If it's 12 years old, there will be at least some minor problems.

These GM's of this vintage have some inherent problems that you need to look out for:

The biggest problem is the intake gaskets. They're a sorry design- made of plastic- and they ALWAYS leak at some point... they might fail at 30K miles or they might fail at 130K- nobody knows, but they WILL fail at some point. When they leak, they leak coolant into the engine oil- which can quickly ruin the engine if you don't catch it quickly. The repair costs maybe $500-$800 depending on who's doing it ($100 in parts, 5-6 hours labor). FelPro makes an improved gasket (MS98003T) that takes care of the problem- but if the old style gaskets are used (or GM's sorry 'improved' gaskets, which are still plastic), they WILL fail again. Unless you can verify that this repair has been done, and with these specific improved Felpro gaskets- you can count on having to do this repair in the future. And you'd better keep an eye on the oil for signs of coolant, else you could be looking at a blown engine.

Also these cars were among the worst for GM's infamous Dexcool problems. Now don't get me wrong- Dexcool can work spectacularly when nothing goes wrong. My Lumina's cooling system was sparkling-clean when I took it apart at 159,000 miles. Problem is that when things go wrong in a Dexcool system (via air getting into the system, the level getting low, overheating, etc.), they go very VERY wrong. And the cooling system becomes clogged with a nasty, sticky, iron-oxide slurry. It's nearly impossible to flush out- I speak from bitter experience here. I would strongly reccommend that you check both the overflow bottle AND the radiator tank for this sludge- and RUN AWAY if you see anything more than a trace. Otherwise you're looking at a radiator replacement and possible long-term cooling system problems that never get completely resolved.

And then there's the anti-theft system. You'll notice a little resistor chip in the key. This activates a fiendishly complicated and failure-prone anti-theft system that GM put in lots of cars of this era. Why would anybody steal a 2000 Century or the like?? In effect, this is not an anti-theft system... it's an anti-owner system. Because it will fail at the most inopportune time- and the engine won't start. Mine did (I forgot to list this repair in my previous rant). There are work-arounds available, and they're not that expensive. But you'll need to be handy with some basic electronics or be willing to pay a few hundred dollars for somebody to install the bypass module or resistor- depending on which solution you prefer.

So I'd say that if you're a decent shade-tree mechanic, and you want some cheap transportation that you KNOW will require some minor repair- go for it. Although there's no way I'd pay $5000+ for that car. IMO, it's worth $3000 at most here in Middle America (not sure where you're located). But if you're not comfortable with vehicle repair, and you just want to put the key in and drive like it's a new car... this isn't the vehicle for you. These GM's are good for cheap, simple transportation- but you will be constantly dealing with minor little problems. That's just how older GM vehicles are. As a former mechanic, I'm ok with that. But lots of people aren't- and that's why these vehicles are cheap.

Personally if I was buying within a budget to $5,500 or so- I'd be looking for a newer vehicle even if it had three times the mileage on it.

[iskerbibel]

Originally Posted by odanny

Buick's are excellent and reliable vehicles, one with low miles means you are likely getting a car that has been driven easily. Approach the sale like you would any sale, but if the price is already low, offering less means the sellers refusal could bring another buyer in the interim.



I took that chance on this 1986 Olds one owner that it would last after he refused my offer of one thousand, it did, and after two weeks, he lowered his price from fifteen hundred. I put on tires and brakes right after buying it, and then added a few other things (like the tint) and it runs like a new car still after I've driven it for 15k miles. Just recently put in plugs, plug wires, an ignition control module and coil to keep it running like new.

How much is the seller asking for the car? The condition of the car tells you how it was cared for. If it is also very clean, and the price is right, you can rest assured a Buick is a quality make. If you like this car you should make an offer on it. Depending on how it is priced determines how low I'd start, probably around $800.00 below asking if it is less than 5K, and if over, I'd go 1k to 1.5k less. I'd try to pay at least $500.00 less than asking unless it is already a very fair price. It also helps to know how long it has been for sale, just casually ask, the longer, the better. If it has been for sale over one month, it helps your position, you can drive a harder bargain and go lower.

Superficially, this Olds may SEEM like a very similar car to that 2000 Century. And these mid-sized front wheel drive Buicks and Olds in the mid 80's were very reliable. But this '86 Olds shares none of the inherent problems that the 2000 Century suffers from, those being:

Failure-prone intake gaskets.

Sludge-prone (Dexcool) cooling sytem.

Failure-prone anti-theft system (which will not allow the engine to start when it fails).

[iskerbibel]

Originally Posted by 73-79 ford fan

A 1985 Caprice in good condition is one of the best cars made since 1985 and FAR better in durability than any 2002 Honda car.

I've owned and worked on both (ok, my Honda is a 2004). And IMO the Honda is a superior vehicle in every respect except maybe for use in a demo-derby.

What did Ford make that was notable between '73 and '79? All I remember is a bunch of 351-M-400 boat-anchors. And re-styled Pintos that they called Mustang II's.

[73-79 ford fan]

Originally Posted by iskerbibel

I've owned and worked on both (ok, my Honda is a 2004). And IMO the Honda is a superior vehicle in every respect except maybe for use in a demo-derby.

What did Ford make that was notable between '73 and '79? All I remember is a bunch of 351-M-400 boat-anchors. And re-styled Pintos that they called Mustang II's.

Look, it doesn't matter. I will say this though respectfully, it should not be all that hard for a 16 year mechanic to get a 62,000 mile Caprice to hold refrigerant, or fix the radiator, or fix the rear axle seal, or the rear brake cylinders or fix anything related to the rather simple engine management systems that these cars have then have a car that will hammer out several hundred thousand miles with ease. Those Honda's are short lifespan throw away cars whereas those Caprices's were and are designed to last for a long time.

[iskerbibel]

Originally Posted by 73-79 ford fan

Look, it doesn't matter. I will say this though respectfully, it should not be all that hard for a 16 year mechanic to get a 62,000 mile Caprice to hold refrigerant, or fix the radiator, or fix the rear axle seal, or the rear brake cylinders or fix anything related to the rather simple engine management systems that these cars have then have a car that will hammer out several hundred thousand miles with ease. Those Honda's are short lifespan throw away cars whereas those Caprices's were and are designed to last for a long time.

It's been a few years since 1998 when I bought that Caprice. I was a THREE year mechanic in 1998. My sixteenth year was 2011, and then thankfully I got out of the industry altogether.

I'll agree that all those problems are manageable- I'd have a much easier time dealing with that car now than when I was young(er) and dumb(er). But just the same, that's a LOT of problems to have in a car with only 62,000 miles (actually I think it had around 90,000 by the time I got fed up). And if somebody had to PAY a mechanic to fix all those problems? It would equal more than the value of the car.

Now contrast that with my 2001 Lumina that I bought when it was 5 years old and had 159,000 miles. The only major repair I've had to do is the intake gaskets- which is just an inherent flaw in the 3100 engine. The minor repairs I've had to do to this Lumina are FAR fewer over the past 6 years/83,000 miles than what I had to do with the Caprice in 1.5 years/30,000 miles. And BTW, this Lumina is a "throw-away" car.

My wife's Honda OTOH, was bought 6 years old with 85,000 miles. It had been wrecked before- has a salvage title. That would scare most people off- but not me of course because I'm an awesome mechanic. I've had to do a few minor repairs due to shoddy work on the part of the guys who fixed damage from the wreck (you can't reasonably count this against Honda). And I had to replace a battery cable. That's it. We've had the car for 2 years & 35,000 miles, and the only repair I've made that wasn't related to the wreck has been a battery cable. Compare that with my old Caprice's track record over 1.5 years & 30,000 miles.

Now I will agree with you that the Caprice is a much more heavily built car. It's sturdy, relatively easy to work on, and the basic drivetrain is pretty durable (though those early 700R4's definitely had their share of problems). The drivetrain really hadn't changed THAT much since 1955. But in my experience, being built like a tank does NOT translate into many years and hundreds of thousands of miles of trouble-free driving. Really all it means is that the car is a little easier to work on, and it would smash my Lumina (or my Honda) in a demo-derby.

Don't get me wrong- I'm not saying that I hate older GM vehicles. I own two of them and I'm quite satisfied with them for the price. They're cheap and adequate- like me. But the fact is that you WILL have to work on them. In my experience, older GM vehicles will constantly bother you with minor little problems (don't even get me started on my 200o GMC pickup). But if you keep on top of those minor little problems, they can work quite well for many years and hundreds of thousands of miles. But if you're not a mechanic and have no aspirations to BE one... you might want to look elsewhere.

[Rebekkah]

We are looking at a 2000 Infiniti with 72000 miles for our son who needs a reliable car to commute to work. The car has been garaged, evidently well maintained, etc. We're just wondering, as the previous poster did, whether the relatively low miles offsets the age of the car.

[need4speed2012]

The biggest problem with these low mileage vehicle will be the lack of maintenance. Many times people will not drive them for extended periods of time and they believe that if its not broken or needs attention then don't worry about it !!!!!

[whiteboyslo]

Originally Posted by Rebekkah

We are looking at a 2000 Infiniti with 72000 miles for our son who needs a reliable car to commute to work. The car has been garaged, evidently well maintained, etc. We're just wondering, as the previous poster did, whether the relatively low miles offsets the age of the car.

In a nutshell, rubber parts wear REGARDLESS of miles. These are what you need to worry about. So, the things to check/replace are: tires, belts, hoses. And that doesn't NECESSARILY mean to replace these items, just check them out (although, if the tires are older than 7 years or so, I'd just replace them).

The other thing to worry about are seals/gaskets leaking. BUT, that really depends more on the circumstances of the low mileage. If the low miles are because it's only driven a few miles a few days a week, you're probably fine. If, however, the low miles are because the car has not been driven in ages, it's more of a risk.

Aside from that, check the usual things like maintenance records, etc. You may also want to have the timing belt replaced just for peace of mind. I'm not sure if Nissan/Infiniti recommended replacement every 60K or 100K miles, but on age alone, it's probably due. And since I'm almost positive Nissan engines from that era are interference engines, this is something that will be very costly if the belt breaks. Some would recommend you also have the water pump replaced at the same time since it adds a negligible amount of labor cost if done at the same time as the water pump, but that's really optional. However, IF you have that done, too, go ahead and have the coolant replaced. And as long as you're doing that, might as well replace the hoses. Snowballs, doesn't it? lol.

But really, I don't see an issue with buying vehicles with low miles. Again, if the low miles were because the vehicle had not been driven in years, I'd be a BIT more nervous, but it's not a deal-breaker. I've purchased three 87-91 era Ford pick-ups all with sub-100K miles (old man trucks where the owner basically got to the point where they couldn't drive it anymore. You know the story), and they've all had a few issues but were very good trucks.

Of course, the one thing to not forget to check......were 2000 Infinitis good cars in the first place? That, I don't know, but low miles won't necessarily get you out of experiencing whatever issues the vehicle is known for.

Mike

[RBI]

Considering purchasing a 2003 Mercedes SLK 230 for $10,500 with 28,000 miles on it. Never driven much and always kept in garage. Great shape, runs good. Other than purchasing new tires, oil and filter change, what other maintenance requirements can we expect regarding this 12 year old vehicle?