what cars of the late 80's or early 90's do you think will become future collector cars? (F150, muscle car)

[Linson]

[quote=Felix C;19570903]

Originally Posted by Linson

I have heard SD is better for performance and one less bottleneck as there is no MAF, only the TB. Currently LS1/LS2 folk prefer to go SD as there is more power.

yes and no. more power in SD? inherently, no. more ultimate power potential because of the elimination of the possible bottleneck MAF sensor, yeah. but for this to be relevant, you have to go beyond the airflow capacity of the MAF sensor, and by then you are way, way past street/strip applications.

for mild street/strip use, the advantages of MAF metering are: 1) better throttle response. 2. it responds better to modifications - meaning if you put a few mods on your 5.0 - CAI, ect., you will see more improvement with MAF metering due to MAF's more open ended nature, where the SD has more or less, closed parameters, and therefore will always try to bring those characteristics back to stock or back to whatever the CPU program is set for. so, basically, you have to have the CPU or chip retuned after each round of modifications.

SD is prefered for retro-fitting and what not, i think because it's just simpler. and simpler to produce.

this is my understanding of the two, anyway.

[Felix C]

[quote=Linson;19571622]

Originally Posted by Felix C

yes and no. more power in SD? inherently, no. more ultimate power potential because of the elimination of the possible bottleneck MAF sensor, yeah. but for this to be relevant, you have to go beyond the airflow capacity of the MAF sensor, and by then you are way, way past street/strip applications.

for mild street/strip use, the advantages of MAF metering are: 1) better throttle response. 2. it responds better to modifications - meaning if you put a few mods on your 5.0 - CAI, ect., you will see more improvement with MAF metering due to MAF's more open ended nature, where the SD has more or less, closed parameters, and therefore will always try to bring those characteristics back to stock or back to whatever the CPU program is set for. so, basically, you have to have the CPU or chip retuned after each round of modifications.

SD is prefered for retro-fitting and what not, i think because it's just simpler. and simpler to produce.

this is my understanding of the two, anyway.

I had a MAF(91), my brother had SD(88). His car was faster but he was dedicated street/strip racer, Ed Curtis prepped heads and cam,hartman intake,Liberty T-5.etc.etc.

I did minor SVO(now SVT) items and called it a day-bundle of snakes, Edelbrock heads, cobra rockers, B303, Cobra intake, Tremec, 3.73s.

[leanansidhex]

Originally Posted by NJGOAT

I didn't read through the whole thread, but there are some cars that are starting to show signs of interest among enthusiasts:



I actually think the 240 may be more popular than the 300ZX in the future do to the large current interest in racing them. Kind of the same effect seen with 3rd Gen Camaro's and Fox Mustangs.



.

I can't discuss this topic as an equal but I have been curious for a awhile about my cars' future appeal.

I was given a 240 SX SE 1991 in 1991 by a friend who owned 5 sports cars. One of those cars was a Testarossa. I loved driving his cars, and he trusted my ability to handle them.

He chose the 240 for me because of the driving experience, as well the overall affordability, re: maintenance, registration, insurance.

From day one that car was/is a guy magnet.

I still get constant, serious offers to buy it. NOT for sale.
I recently had it lojack-ed.

Even though the drift days have peaked -Most fun you can have in a 240-
the interest in my ride remains undiminished.

So what might I expect in the future?

Thanks for giving me an inside perspective.

[NJGOAT]

Originally Posted by TimBomb

RX7s, with 3 rotor swaps

Originally Posted by Linson

forgot about those. thats a no-brainer.

Not really, shade tree modified cars generally aren't very collectible. There aren't any 3 rotor swap RX7's made by someone like a Yenko or Saleen, etc. While they are cool projects and definitely have a following, I doubt that cars with swapped motors will be very collectible. Just look at the 3rd gen Camaro's and Fox Mustang's I mentioned. Many of them had motor swaps and extensive work done to them to make them race cars. However, the ones that are holding value and people are starting to see as collector's are the bone stock ones, or ones that have been returned to stock condition.

I venture that 3 rotor RX7's will be about as collectible as LS1 swapped RX7's. Basically, cool car, but they won't have much inherent value as a collector's item.

[NJGOAT]

Originally Posted by leanansidhex

I can't discuss this topic as an equal but I have been curious for a awhile about my cars' future appeal.

I was given a 240 SX SE 1991 in 1991 by a friend who owned 5 sports cars. One of those cars was a Testarossa. I loved driving his cars, and he trusted my ability to handle them.

He chose the 240 for me because of the driving experience, as well the overall affordability, re: maintenance, registration, insurance.

From day one that car was/is a guy magnet.

I still get constant, serious offers to buy it. NOT for sale.
I recently had it lojack-ed.

Even though the drift days have peaked -Most fun you can have in a 240-
the interest in my ride remains undiminished.

So what might I expect in the future?

Thanks for giving me an inside perspective.

Who knows. Not even five years ago the only thing a 3rd gen Camaro, Fox Mustang or even a C4 Vette were good for were project cars to have a little fun with. Now, they have developed a bit of a following and people are restoring them or keeping them stock.

The 240 may go this way, or it may not. Among all the "regular" Japanese cars, they probably have the best chance to be worth something in the future since they are rather unique compared to the other offerings being RWD and having a strong amateur race following. If it was mine and I had the room for it, I would probably keep it maintained and in nice stock form and see what the future holds.

[Linson]

[quote=Felix C;19571781]

Originally Posted by Linson

I had a MAF(91), my brother had SD(88). His car was faster but he was dedicated street/strip racer, Ed Curtis prepped heads and cam,hartman intake,Liberty T-5.etc.etc.

I did minor SVO(now SVT) items and called it a day-bundle of snakes, Edelbrock heads, cobra rockers, B303, Cobra intake, Tremec, 3.73s.

sounds like he probably had a higher performing, more cohesive engine package. unlikely that it really came down to which air metering system was used.

so far on my 89 LX, i have:

BBK subframe connectors
SSBC front discs and rear drum to disc conversion
BBK CAI,
Granatelli MAF Sensor
BBK equal length shorty headers, off road H-pipe
Flowmaster Cat-Back

i want to go the GT40x aluminum head route, and Cobra upper/lower intake, + a mild cam upgrade and some other stuff like roller rocker arms, ect. i'll do an overhaul when its within my budget.

right now, i'm having my 89 Formula overhauled:

Fast Burn heads
ZZ4 cam
roller rockers, forged rods, everything else. she should be on the road soon.

[415_s2k]

I think that ultimately - say, another 10-15 years down the line - 240SX's and 300ZX's of the same vintage will command about the same prices.

The thing with the 240SX's is that the stock engines are pretty bland until you turbo them. For the real fun to happen, you have to swap in an SR20DET or an RB engine, and if you live in the US, that instantly means the numbers don't match. An S13 with a quality SR or RB swap, with high-end modifications and professional installation, usually runs you in the $7-15k range, depending on the car's numbers and if it's got any notoriety (track, shows, magazines, etc). Last decade, when they were ten years newer and the whole JDM/Drift thing was exploding, you could get more of a mint off them - a salvage titled '89 with 220k on the frame and a dodgy SR20DET could still get you $5k in California. Now, you can pick one up with a decent, stock SR20DET swap for $3500 or so.

300ZX's were sold in much greater numbers than Supras or RX7's of the same vintage because they generally had a better name than the other premium Japanese sports cars of the time, and cost a bit less, too IIRC. Because of that, there are more of them around, and that helped to drive the cost down. That helped them become the easiest-to-obtain RWD Japanese sports car (with a proper engine), which means that over the last decade, a lot of them have been bought by kids who have thrashed the living **** out of them - $4k for a 300ZX, or $14k for an FD? Easy choice when you work at Best Buy and live out of your parents'. You can find tons of early 90's 300ZX's with blown transmissions, broken valves, rod knocks, bondo, primer, cheap body kits, and welded frames for less than $2k. Even if you have a mint Twin Turbo with under 100k on the clock, the problem is that any prestige the car had relative to an FD or Supra is shot. Again, after another 10-15 years, I imagine that most of the dogs will have been sold for scrap and the remaining ones will be in much better shape, and hopefully most people will have forgotten their sordid history through the "drift years."

[leanansidhex]

Thanks to NJGOAT and 415-s2k for their responses. The engine has been meticulously maintained with current mileage at 89,000, but it looks like, to have real fun I'd need to replace it any way.

Money concerns have, and will, come and go, but my car stays with me.

[duster1979]

How "late" in the '80s are you talking? The last generation rear-wheel-drive mid-size GMs (Cutlass, Monte Carlo, etc) that ended in 1987 are already becoming popular. Chrysler made some one-off performance versions of some of their FWD cars in those days that will probably develop at least a cult following someday.

[The Continental]

I think some of the optioned out original cars might have a strong market, but anything below that most will want an upgraded/modded drivetain. Same goes for cars back to early to mid 70s. Now how many ricers do you think have been left stock especially the top optioned ones?