Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Automotive
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-13-2010, 04:50 AM
 
1,949 posts, read 5,262,384 times
Reputation: 940

Advertisements

this is not so much a post as it is an article, due to it's length, so strap in.

1967 Firebird - project not running
1968 Mustang - future project, not running
1989 Mustang LX 5.0 - nice, but transmission is out
1989 Firebird Formula 350 T-Top - future project, not running
1989 Firebird Formula 350 Hardtop - nice, like new in fact with < 30,000 mi, but needs engine work.
1996 Camaro Z28 - nice, runs, many mods.
1998 Durango 4x4 - daily driver (wife)
1999 Sierra Z71 - daily driver (me)

That's how many cars i have! right now, only three of them run. i'm so sick and tired of having so many project cars. i have a three car garage, and it's a very big garage, but has only three bays, and the third bay is a gym. two vehicles - the two unstarted projects (68 Mustang and 89 T-top) are kept in storage. two are kept in the garage (67 Firebird and 96 Camaro) and, theoretically two are parked in front of the garage (89 Mustang and 89 Formula hardtop, which currently stays at the shop). the daily driven trucks dont count, and are parked in front of the house.

the problem: having this many cars is too unmanagable. i could have probably built one or two a couple of times over by now, if it werent for always "investing" in another must-have-dream-car. even if i did get them all fixed up, then i would have to insure them all. and keep them all. and i dont have a big ass barn to keep 6 or 8 cars in.

the plan: sell off everything but the 67 Firebird and get a 2011 Mustang GT with Brembo package.

the parameters:
the 67 Firebird stays. the two daily driven trucks stay, dont count, and arent a part of this equation.

the new Mustang: the first thing that got my attention about the 2010-11 Mustang (besides the F-ING UGLY rear end) is how nice the leather interior is. nicer than a lot of supposed luxery cars. but it wasnt until the new Coyote 5.0 that i have been able to ovelook the ugly back 1/10th of the car. and the rest of the car looks great (that is, of course other than the fact that Ford STILL uses sucky-ass-too-narrow tires on even their hottest car). so, aside from wanting to, in a sense, "knock over the chessboard" and end the madness, i am also 35 years old now, and wanting to graduate from the chinsy plastic interior offered in these types of cars at least since the eighties, and step up into something with black leather and nice fit and finish. not to mention the fact that, for the money (in performance dollars) the 2011 Mustang GT is the best thing going, even blowing the Shelby 500's out of the water. so, i am willing to sell everything except the '67 in order to get a big enough down payment to make the car payments on a $40,000 machine somewhat less than absurd.

so, what's the dilema?: well, nobody is buying my cars. i had my Camaro up on eBay, and didnt even get a serious bid, and that thing is nice and i think the top bid was like $500! the tranny is still down on my 5.0. my 89 Formula 350 hardtop (which has less than 30k on the odometer) needs engine work. that's right. my Formula 350 from 1989 has less than 30000 original miles and needs engine work. long story short - never buy a car sight unseen. turns out the reason for the extraordinarilly low mileage was that the car hadnt been driven in a couple of decades. then there's the other two unstarted projects which i apparently cant even give away.

and now i'm having second thoughts: the white 89 Mustang is sitting in front of my garage. and she's looking pretty good. the only thing wrong with it is that the transmission went out, so $1200, and she'll be on the road again. aside from that the car is super solid. replace the carpet and the interior is as good as new. and that's not even saying that the carped is bad. she's got some nice fat little 265/50's out back and brand new stainless pipes from the Flowmaster cat-back which is mated to a BBK off-road H-pipe, which is mated to BBK equal length shorty headers. the uglyness of the faded stock lenses, and the night driving visibility problems of the Ultra smoked lenses was cured by the Ultra clear headlight lenses which give her a clean look. she's got some other cool mods (like 3.55 gears and four wheel disc brakes, and a nice sounding stereo system, just to name a few). and one thing that this little car has over most newer cars is what it lacks. a whole bunch of plastic body parts. front and rear bumpers, yes, but not a bunch of plastic overhangs, like on the new Camaro, and to a lesser extent (much lesser) the new Mustangs. this is a solid, tough little car - and it dont weigh very much.

sworn enemies make a cool team:


these are my 1989 Mustang LX Sport Hatchback and my 1989 Firebird Formula 350. get it? they're both '89's. and they're both the stripped-down, lighter, no-nonsense, FASTER, and in a lot of people's opinion, cleaner and better looking version of the more expensive, purportedly more luxerious Mustang GT and Trans Am GTA respectively.

i already talked about the 5.0, now here's the deal on the Formula: everything on it is like new, but it has several mechanical problems, not the least of which is the need for an engine overhaul, from sitting for LITERALLY almost 20 years, a material fact which was omitted by the eBayer who sold it to me (a long story which i wont be getting into).

aside from that, back in the mid-ninties, i was on the GM side of the Mustang vs. Camaro/Firebird war. over time though, i have gotten over any kind of brand loyalty and can appreciate both cars and both brands. but, truth be told, of the two, the Formula is definitely my favorite. if the Firebird goes, the Mustang definitely goes as well, but i can see keeping the Firebird and not the Mustang, although i like having them both. they're just cool as hell sitting next to each other. i wish that the Firebird was black, like my T-top 89 'bird, but i'll just have to deal, because the Maui Blue paint is just like new. as a matter of fact, the interior is just like new and still has that new car smell. like i said, this car has 29 thousand and some change on the odometer. hell, even the fender wells are still black, as if it's never seen rain or dust. and that is where the debate comes in: for a couple grand in parts and a couple grand in labor, the 5.0, which is already half built, can easilly be a 350 HP car. for a few thousand dollars in parts and labor, probably 10K or so, the Formula can easily be a 350 HP car. a nasty whip indeed. two nasty whips for less than half the price of the new Mustang i've had my eye on.

so that is the debate. if i keep the Formula (and the LX) but mainly the Formula, i'm not going to buy a 2011 GT. in order to buy a 2011 GT, i must sell everything as stated before, including the Formula.

2011 Mustang GT vs. 1989 Firebird Formula 350:

i think that for me, personally, MOST elements of the equation line up in favor of the Formula 350.

all-out performance, i give the the Mustang.
modern amenities and respectable interior trim goes to the 2011.
the "look how far i've come in life to have a brand new [awesome sports car] with no one else's stank on it" factor goes to the Mustang.

but, the truth is, there's nothing special about a 2011 Mustang GT unless its MY 2011 Mustang GT or unless it's YOUR 2011 Mustang GT. there's really nothing very special about any brand new car. and the 2011 Mustang GT is just the latest, best thing. now, when was the last time you saw a KILLER late '80s Firebird or Camaro? that is special. IT'S RARE! it's more rare than seeing a beautifully restored or awesomely built classic from the '60s. same can be said for the old 5.0s. most of these cars were just beat to ****. when i see a new Mustang, i think, "hmm, is that a 2010 or a 2011? those 2011's sure are badass. now if only they'd redesign that ugly back end." if i were to see a KILLER '89-ish Formula 350 i would say "HOOOOOOLY SHHHHIIIIIIT!!! so, yeah, the Formula elicites a stronger emotional response from me. i know that for some, these cars only conjur up negative stereotypes (based in reallity) and images of cars that are basically beaters.

now, what's better - knowing that the guy next to you knows that yours is better than his? or, knowing that the guy next to you thinks that his is better than yours, and knowing that he is wrong? both are good feelings, but for any true hot rod guy, i dont even need to answer that.

the "it's paid for" factor, of course, goes to the Firebird.

fit and finish and build quality go to the 2011 Mustang.

styling is close, but IMO, ever so slightly favors the Pontiac built in 1989 to look as if it was made in 2010, over the Ford that was built in 2010 to look like it was made in 1968.


okay, lets face it. there is something that is just "off" with the entire back angle of this car since the 2010 redesign. i dont know what Ford was thinking, but i have never heard anyone say anything good about the design.

i think most of us can agree that from this angle (style wise) the Pontiac takes it.

definitely one FAST mother F-er, and looks very nice from this angle.
http://www.hawksthirdgenparts.com/images/KevinB_1.jpg (broken link)
i dont think that there is such a thing as a sleeker looking car than a black Formula 350.


this is a cool motor.


this is an awesome motor.

so, what's it gonna be?: i still dont know. if i could get a fair price for everything that i wanna sell, including the Formula, i would sell it all and get the 2011 GT. why? because a 2011 Mustang and a 1967 Firebird will fit in my garage, and i can theoretically leave well enough alone ( yeah like that would happen) and concentrate on building my 67 Firebird. but yeah, no cars in storage, no cars outside under car covers, and it would sure make my wife happy. but since i dont see getting a fair price for anything, i am leaning towards keeping the 67 and the two 89's and trying to sell the rest for what i can get. at least i dont want to keep paying for storage.

so, that's what's been on my mind lately. if you read this article, i hope you enjoyed it. i'd be interested in hearing where others might stand on the 2011 Mustang GT vs. 1989 Firebird Formula 350 debate.

fin.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-13-2010, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Vancouver, B.C., Canada
11,155 posts, read 29,316,613 times
Reputation: 5479
hmm well I hope you get lucky with the sale and picking up a 2011 5.0 mustang or since you have a 4th gen camaro maybe finding a nice used 99-02 camaro SS LS1 6-speed pumping out a stock 345HP and with bolt-ons or a supercharger is easy to get in the new 5.0 power range and it still has the appeal and looks of not being a heavy pig as the new 5th gen camaro.

Last edited by GTOlover; 10-13-2010 at 12:32 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-13-2010, 01:37 PM
 
1,949 posts, read 5,262,384 times
Reputation: 940
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTOlover View Post
hmm well I hope you get lucky with the sale and picking up a 2011 5.0 mustang or since you have a 4th gen camaro maybe finding a nice used 99-02 camaro SS LS1 6-speed pumping out a stock 345HP and with bolt-ons or a supercharger is easy to get in the new 5.0 power range and it still has the appeal and looks of not being a heavy pig as the new 5th gen camaro.
i'm not interested in getting an LS1 Camaro. it's the packaging that i dont care for: a kick-ass engine and drive train surrounded by a plastic car.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-13-2010, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
13,714 posts, read 31,173,187 times
Reputation: 9270
I will admit I am almost a Firebird hater. TransAms, regular Firebirds, etc - I think they are all mediocre, most are gaudy and more suitable for teenage white boys living in Tennessee. These cars are too simple for my taste, not really that fast, have dismal interiors, etc. I like 1st gen Firebirds because they were reflective of the era and have some charm.

That said - I respect your right to like them.

So I like your plan. Get rid of them all except the 1967. Buy a new Mustang 5.0. What will your wife drive? The Durango is hardly worth keeping.

Think about the contrast between the two. Old school OHV GM V8 in the Firebird and a DOHC variable valve timing V8 in the Mustang.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-13-2010, 01:45 PM
 
1,949 posts, read 5,262,384 times
Reputation: 940
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffdano View Post
I will admit I am almost a Firebird hater. TransAms, regular Firebirds, etc - I think they are all mediocre, most are gaudy and more suitable for teenage white boys living in Tennessee. These cars are too simple for my taste, not really that fast, have dismal interiors, etc. I like 1st gen Firebirds because they were reflective of the era and have some charm.

That said - I respect your right to like them.

So I like your plan. Get rid of them all except the 1967. Buy a new Mustang 5.0. What will your wife drive? The Durango is hardly worth keeping.

Think about the contrast between the two. Old school OHV GM V8 in the Firebird and a DOHC variable valve timing V8 in the Mustang.
why is the Durango not worth keeping? it's in great condition. it has room for the entire family (comfortably) plus a big load of groceries. it has 3rd row seating in case we need to haul more people. and it has 4WD in case needed (almost never) but it has come up. the only problem with it is that it gets shi++y gas mileage.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-13-2010, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Eastern Washington
17,216 posts, read 57,072,247 times
Reputation: 18579
Are you certain that the low-mile engine is really *ruined* from sitting? Have you driven it around some and done a couple of oil changes, run some fuel system cleaner, etc?

Knowing you, probably you have. But I figure the question bears discussion anyway.

I would fix the older car or hire someone to help. If you know a good pro who would be willing to work with you on a weekend day, sometimes this can help, if you call for him to come over and he shows up, that can go a long ways towards breaking the inertia.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-13-2010, 02:55 PM
 
1,949 posts, read 5,262,384 times
Reputation: 940
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Mitch View Post
Are you certain that the low-mile engine is really *ruined* from sitting? Have you driven it around some and done a couple of oil changes, run some fuel system cleaner, etc?

Knowing you, probably you have. But I figure the question bears discussion anyway.

I would fix the older car or hire someone to help. If you know a good pro who would be willing to work with you on a weekend day, sometimes this can help, if you call for him to come over and he shows up, that can go a long ways towards breaking the inertia.
yes. i'm sure. the car has to start and run in order to drive it around. TWO DECADES, man. that car sat for two decades.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-13-2010, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Vancouver, B.C., Canada
11,155 posts, read 29,316,613 times
Reputation: 5479
well as for the mustang 2011 5.0 GT I would wait atleast 1-1 1/2 years till all the orders go out and the dealers are not selling them for full MSRP anymore then atleast you can go in and get a bit of a deal and have all the little production bugs and stuff worked out of the first series of cars.
it is also good to wait cause then it gives the aftermarket time to make some neat stuff for it.

as for the 96 camaro Z28 and 5.0 mustang best bet is to post them on car sites or try and sell them there. the 89 5.0 mustang and L98 5.7 non-running firebird is great to try and sell to the younger generation as a cheap fixer-upper pony car for college or high school kids.

Last edited by GTOlover; 10-13-2010 at 03:13 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-13-2010, 03:40 PM
 
Location: U.S.A.
3,306 posts, read 12,221,611 times
Reputation: 2966
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linson View Post
yes. i'm sure. the car has to start and run in order to drive it around. TWO DECADES, man. that car sat for two decades.

Big deal... try a couple things.

First, remove the distributor and use a drill and custom piece of stock steel (I use old distributor shafts) to prime the oiling circuit. This will take care of dry bearings and get the valvetrain nice and wet.

Then take out the plugs and pump the cylinders full of oil, let it sit for a few days to let most of the oil seep through the ring gaps and then crank it over for a while with the plugs still out to remove the remaining oil. Prime the oil circuit again. Put in fresh plugs, check all the other stuff and most of your worries are taken care of.

Additionally I would run seafoam through the engine as soon as you get it running, use the brake booster vacuum hose.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-13-2010, 04:10 PM
 
Location: Eastern Washington
17,216 posts, read 57,072,247 times
Reputation: 18579
Yeah, not to get on your nerves, but for example a cousin of mine bought a 49 Mercury for $50 essentially on a bet that he could get it running the same day. I don't know that it sat 20 years but it was sitting in a field. He put 8 new sparkplugs and some fresh gas in the tank and drove it away. The previous owner just stood there with his mouth hanging open, holding the title and looking at my cousin holding out a fifty dollar bill to him. I am not sure if he still has that car or not, but he drove it several years, never did any serious engine work. Engine was not 100% of course, burnt a little oil, leaked a little oil (mostly out the rear main, most of these do) but it was quite servicable.

Even if the engine is stuck, pull the spark plugs and put some Kroil in each cylinder - may or may not free it up depending on what's wrong.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Automotive
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top