"Austin, we have a problem" (Happy: income, sales tax)

[CptnRn]

Originally Posted by scm53

You do realize that property tax revenues do not fund the Transportation and Public Works departments - the folks that maintain streets. Right? So, now what is your argument?

How do you figure that? I worked at Public Works, CoA for 23 years, it very definitely is funded by property tax revenues as well as sales tax.

[PedroMartinez]

Originally Posted by kavorka

It's a bit of a paradox. Austin's efforts to protect the local environment and prevent highways from crisscrossing the urban core are a big reason why it's still such a beautiful and desirable place to live. San Antonio has lots of highways which make it easier to get around, but that has made it uglier in comparison, in my opinion.

Also, our geography is much more constraining in terms of having a nice concentric loop system.

I lived in Austin in starting in the late 80's into the early 90's. Each time I go back and drive through the "hill country" immediately surrounding the city, it looks like "tree house country" with houses, one above the other, going up the hills. You used to be able to drive down roads like 620 and see the natural hills to the side. Now, you see gas stations and strip malls with the gaps between allowing for glimpses of homes dotting the landscape.

Austin has become LA without the ocean (well, at least it's working its way there).

[sxrckr]

Originally Posted by PedroMartinez

I lived in Austin in starting in the late 80's into the early 90's. Each time I go back and drive through the "hill country" immediately surrounding the city, it looks like "tree house country" with houses, one above the other, going up the hills. You used to be able to drive down roads like 620 and see the natural hills to the side. Now, you see gas stations and strip malls with the gaps between allowing for glimpses of homes dotting the landscape.

Austin has become LA without the ocean (well, at least it's working its way there).

Lots of people moving here. They have to go somewhere...

[Devout Urbanist]

Originally Posted by PedroMartinez

You used to be able to drive down roads like 620 and see the natural hills to the side. Now, you see gas stations and strip malls with the gaps between allowing for glimpses of homes dotting the landscape.

620 and your car were not exactly helping to preserve the beauty of those hills either.

Originally Posted by PedroMartinez

Austin has become LA without the ocean (well, at least it's working its way there).

This sort of rhetoric just baffles me. Have you ever been to LA? Austin is more like LA without a subway system, an expansive network of sidewalks, dense urban enclaves, and, yeah, the ocean. Of course, I prefer the lake, but who knows how long that will be around.

[scm53]

Originally Posted by Devout Urbanist

Have you ever been to LA? Austin is more like LA without a subway system, an expansive network of sidewalks, dense urban enclaves, and, yeah, the ocean. Of course, I prefer the lake, but who knows how long that will be around.

A subway system that is fed by a rail station with 41,000 daily boardings and serves a CBD with almost 30,000,000 sq. ft. of office space - both of which aren't anything like Austin - and won't ever be in any of our lifetimes.

Wondering if you'd ever been to LA, if those things are what stuck in your mind. Sounds like the blind man that touched an elephant's ear, and was convinced the whole thing was a hand fan.

[Devout Urbanist]

Originally Posted by scm53

A subway system that is fed by a rail station with 41,000 daily boardings and serves a CBD with almost 30,000,000 sq. ft. of office space - both of which aren't anything like Austin - and won't ever be in any of our lifetimes.

Hey, Austin is no LA. We can certainly agree on that.

Originally Posted by scm53

Wondering if you'd ever been to LA, if those things are what stuck in your mind.

This is a curious statement. I never said anything about "what stuck in [my] mind" after visiting LA.

[scm53]

Originally Posted by Devout Urbanist

This is a curious statement. I never said anything about "what stuck in [my] mind" after visiting LA.

Originally Posted by Devout Urbanist

Austin is more like LA without a subway system, an expansive network of sidewalks, dense urban enclaves, and, yeah, the ocean.

Sure seems like it was these things, at the very least, right?

Those aren't things the vast majority of people - looking at the LA metro area - even notice.

[Devout Urbanist]

Originally Posted by scm53

Sure seems like it was these things, at the very least, right?

No, it doesn't. This discussion is about transit. I was highlighting the differences between LA and Austin with respect to transit infrastructure, not "what stuck in [my] mind" about "the LA metro area."

[jb9152]

Originally Posted by kavorka

For starters, double the number of cap metro routes, and double the number of buses on those routes.

Marginal cost of adding buses increases, and efficiency decreases, with higher demand. For every bus added, you have to hire another driver, with benefits, etc. You also need to incrementally add maintenance people to clean and service the expanded fleet. Cap Metro currently gets $0.01 sales tax from the jurisdictions that are a part of its district. If you're going to increase operating costs, it's probably a better idea to think long-term. Systems that can support the demand that you'll need them to have in order to make any appreciable dent in our traffic woes. Bus simply doesn't do that, plain and simple. It gets less efficient the more people want to ride it.

Originally Posted by kavorka

Work with surrounding communities to connect our flyers and express routes to their systems, if they exist.

They don't, with the exception of CARTS, which already partners with Cap Metro to provide connecting service.

Originally Posted by kavorka

Or add more flyer routes and extend existing ones further out, and make up the cost in increased fares on those routes.

I like the idea of premium pricing for premium service. Could temporarily pay for the increased operating costs (assuming that you can still get the volume of riders you need to actually make more money from the service; there is a price sensitivity that has to be accounted for. If the buses are stuck in the same traffic that your car is stuck in on a daily basis, and you double the price, not only do you risk not attracting more riders, but losing those who don't want to pay the increased fare. Just something to ponder.)

Originally Posted by kavorka

Start claiming more lanes from cars to designate bus only, or bus and carpool only.

Bus, buses, and more buses.

Being done (sort of) on MoPac - an express lane is being added in each direction without changing the number of free lanes, and express buses will be able to take advantage of them, and maybe in decades hence on I35. Don't think we have the time to wait to do that, unfortunately. Plus, it's a political atom bomb - what politician will have the cojones to tell auto commuters that we're going to make their commute worse by taking lanes away? I know, I know - it will force them onto the bus at some point, theoretically. Or they could just decide that Austin isn't paradise anymore when it takes 2 hours to get from Round Rock to downtown, and move away, along with businesses.

"Bus, buses, and more buses" really hasn't worked all that effectively in other places that have grown in the past at a comparable rate to Austin. We're in a race against time, in essence, and higher priced buses in the same traffic jams that the cars are in doesn't seem much like a recipe for success.

[scm53]

Originally Posted by CptnRn

How do you figure that? I worked at Public Works, CoA for 23 years, it very definitely is funded by property tax revenues as well as sales tax.

The part that pays for maintaining the streets is not funded from the General Fund:

The Austin Transportation Department (ATD) draws operating funds from both the Transportation Fund and the Parking Fund. These include primarily revenue from Right‐of‐Way Management (ROW) fees, the Transportation User fee and from management of the parking meter system.

Strategic planning and council approved fee waivers do come from the General Fund.