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The only person who will care or see a difference in the added prestige/reputation of any school district is the parent. Look for the best fit for the family and the student, this "prestige" thing is wildly overrated. It's not like putting Westlake HS on a college application is going to get you any further than Akins or Bowie.
Actually, college admissions offices are very familiar with high school rankings. If your kid is in the top 20% at Westwood it means a lot more than being in the top 20% at Reagan. I've spoken to an admissions representative from UT about this very issue.
Also, the friends that a kid has is a giant influence on the kid- as close to or equal to a family! I think that the OP knows what they're talking about and has a good strategy based on their goals.
And I think the strategy, while solid, is somewhat myopic in that it fails to take into account all the relevant data available. My point of the methodology behind the rankings being flawed stands in this case, since we're not talking about someone looking for high average, but someone looking for high ceiling. There is a difference there. The ceiling in LTHS/Westlake/Westwood/Anderson/Vandergrift schools is going to be roughly the same.
Also, top 20% scenarios and headed to UT is different from top 2-5% and looking at Stanford.
Thanks for all your feedback--I really do value and appreciate it!
I also subscribe to the school of thought that believes college admissions counselors are familiar with the top (perhaps 100-200) high schools nationally and that this can benefit our childrens' opportunities (not to mention the education they'll obtain by attending a premier school).
As parents, we're obviously setting the standard with regards to expectations for our kids. After that, we need to make conscious decisions regarding what environment we feel is most appropriate if we choose to outsource their education (ie, not home school). Obviously many inputs factor into that decision. As I've previously stated, all three of our children currently attend charter schools here in Phx, and for a number of reasons I don't want to get into as they're not germane to this discussion, we're only looking at public neighborhood schools (not charter, not magnet, not private, etc.) as part of our upcoming relo.
I understand that attending a more challenging school may compromise our kids' ability to earn automatic enrollment at a Texas state school, but I'm ok with that.
I'm not shallow enough to equate academic excellence with prestige. From my outsider's perspective, the only school/community in Austin that I've discussed thus far that could even begin to be considered prestigious is Eanes, and I would hope that one can see that has very little influence on our decision. (For the record, I drive a 9 year old car with 117k miles on it and it's still going strong!).
Thanks for all your feedback--I really do value and appreciate it!
I also subscribe to the school of thought that believes college admissions counselors are familiar with the top (perhaps 100-200) high schools nationally and that this can benefit our childrens' opportunities (not to mention the education they'll obtain by attending a premier school).
As parents, we're obviously setting the standard with regards to expectations for our kids. After that, we need to make conscious decisions regarding what environment we feel is most appropriate if we choose to outsource their education (ie, not home school). Obviously many inputs factor into that decision. As I've previously stated, all three of our children currently attend charter schools here in Phx, and for a number of reasons I don't want to get into as they're not germane to this discussion, we're only looking at public neighborhood schools (not charter, not magnet, not private, etc.) as part of our upcoming relo.
I understand that attending a more challenging school may compromise our kids' ability to earn automatic enrollment at a Texas state school, but I'm ok with that.
I'm not shallow enough to equate academic excellence with prestige. From my outsider's perspective, the only school/community in Austin that I've discussed thus far that could even begin to be considered prestigious is Eanes, and I would hope that one can see that has very little influence on our decision. (For the record, I drive a 9 year old car with 117k miles on it and it's still going strong!).
Eh, my mother sat on the admissions board at Stanford. The school was not, and is not, as significant as SAT/ACT scores, GPA, Extracurriculars and the admissons essay. There may be some cases that the school would matter, but only when the gap was wide between schools. The point that I've been trying to make is that said gap between the "top" Austin schools is actually very narrow, and likely insignificant in the long run.
To me, commute times, neighborhood, and the extracurricular focus of the school (i.e. is the school going to meet all the needs of your child(ren), not just the academic challenge) would be far more important that the US News rankings when the gap is this narrow.
I certainly don't want to diminish the importance/availability of extracurriculars.
I think the gap between Westwood/Westlake is minimal (a few slots on a national level) whereas Lake Travis appears to be ranked around 500 +/- nationally (versus 50-70 for the two W's). I don't think that is narrow at all, but that's just my perception.
I mentioned that I work from home and my girlfriend is likely not to work, so commutes are irrelevant for the purposes of this particular discussion.
I certainly don't want to diminish the importance/availability of extracurriculars.
I think the gap between Westwood/Westlake is minimal (a few slots on a national level) whereas Lake Travis appears to be ranked around 500 +/- nationally (versus 50-70 for the two W's). I don't think that is narrow at all, but that's just my perception.
I mentioned that I work from home and my girlfriend is likely not to work, so commutes are irrelevant for the purposes of this particular discussion.
Gotcha - thought there wasn't a commute issue, but couldn't remember.
Again, when I'm talking about the "gap" between the schools, I'm talking about the high performers. For the schools you're looking at (and for the benefit of those who may come across this topic later) there is almost no separation between all of the standard measures (SAT/ACT scores, AP test performance, College readiness, etc.) for students at the top of their class. Granted, this is primarily based on anecdotal evidence, but isn't that the purpose of this board?
They all have excellent reputations, both academically and extracurricularly, which is why I think it just boils down to which area you like more, and which school you think might fit your kids the best.
Gotcha - thought there wasn't a commute issue, but couldn't remember.
Again, when I'm talking about the "gap" between the schools, I'm talking about the high performers. For the schools you're looking at (and for the benefit of those who may come across this topic later) there is almost no separation between all of the standard measures (SAT/ACT scores, AP test performance, College readiness, etc.) for students at the top of their class. Granted, this is primarily based on anecdotal evidence, but isn't that the purpose of this board?
They all have excellent reputations, both academically and extracurricularly, which is why I think it just boils down to which area you like more, and which school you think might fit your kids the best.
I really enjoyed the discussion EzPeterson and the OP having here. I'm very interested in this topic now that my kids are on their way to HS in few years. Also, I'm a novice when it come to HS evaluation as my kids are still young. I really want to learn from people who have done extensive research into this.
Basic question: Do you think the students make a good school or a school creates good students?
I'm struggling to define what is a good HS?
My son is currently in 6th grade. His MS, even though rated as Recognized by TEA, has not-very-high average scores (in 94-84 range). He is currently enrolled in TAG and I'm surprised at the level of complexity in his math and science tests (about 8th and 9th grade level). As first, he got 84 for this 1st test, but that really "pissed" him (and me) off, so we put in more effort and he can now archived >95 quite easy.
I'm really happy with his schooling (not because of the scores, but because of how the school pushed him to the next level). However, in may other aspects, I wouldn't consider his MS a great school by any mean. As a parent, I'm now wondering: does he need Westwood? Will McNeil or Round Rock HS with similar programs enable him to archive his max potential? What will Westwood offer him that McNeil or RRHS does not? In other words, for my son, why would Westwood be good for him?
Actually, college admissions offices are very familiar with high school rankings. If your kid is in the top 20% at Westwood it means a lot more than being in the top 20% at Reagan. I've spoken to an admissions representative from UT about this very issue.
Also, the friends that a kid has is a giant influence on the kid- as close to or equal to a family! I think that the OP knows what they're talking about and has a good strategy based on their goals.
Total BS. If your kid is in the top 8% at Reagan, s/he is guaranteed admission at UT or whatever TX state college s/he wants. Ditto for the top 8% at Westwood or any other high school in Texas. Below the top 8% at Westwood, unless the kid is getting an athletic scholarship or is a world class violinist, no way is s/he getting into UT. I also think the OP is suffering from some fairly serious delusions. The BASIS charter high school in Tucson is indeed ranked in the top ten high schools in the country; the BASIS charter school in Phoenix/Scottsdale does not make the top 500 nationally. There are at least half a dozen better public high schools in the greater Austin area: LASA, Kealing, Westlake, McCallum, Austin, Anderson, Bowie, McNeil, Vandergrift, Lake Travis. If the kid is actually smart and/or tests well, as opposed to just having a pushy parent, LASA and Kealing would be by far the best options. I teach at UT. The smartest kids from Reagan or Lanier are MUCH smarter than the smartest kids from Westlake or Westwood or Lake Travis. They might not be as well prepared, but they are hungrier, have overcome adversity, are much more likely to be independent thinkers, and are not encumbered by the kinds of entitlement that easily slides into complacency and stupidity.
Total BS. If your kid is in the top 8% at Reagan, s/he is guaranteed admission at UT or whatever TX state college s/he wants. Ditto for the top 8% at Westwood or any other high school in Texas. Below the top 8% at Westwood, unless the kid is getting an athletic scholarship or is a world class violinist, no way is s/he getting into UT. I also think the OP is suffering from some fairly serious delusions. The BASIS charter high school in Tucson is indeed ranked in the top ten high schools in the country; the BASIS charter school in Phoenix/Scottsdale does not make the top 500 nationally. There are at least half a dozen better public high schools in the greater Austin area: LASA, Kealing, Westlake, McCallum, Austin, Anderson, Bowie, McNeil, Vandergrift, Lake Travis. If the kid is actually smart and/or tests well, as opposed to just having a pushy parent, LASA and Kealing would be by far the best options. I teach at UT. The smartest kids from Reagan or Lanier are MUCH smarter than the smartest kids from Westlake or Westwood or Lake Travis. They might not be as well prepared, but they are hungrier, have overcome adversity, are much more likely to be independent thinkers, and are not encumbered by the kinds of entitlement that easily slides into complacency and stupidity.
No offense, but
1) I doubt you have a statistically significant sampling
2) even if you did, I suspect your personal bias completely clouds the validity of even your anecdotal observations
3) Typically the "smartest" student (as defined by high IQ) would rotate between a few schools. On average the students at westlake and westwood are smarter. If I had to guess LASA probably has the smartest students because it pulls from all of austin vs. westwood and westlake which pull from much smaller areas.
1) I doubt you have a statistically significant sampling
2) even if you did, I suspect your personal bias completely clouds the validity of even your anecdotal observations
3) Typically the "smartest" student (as defined by high IQ) would rotate between a few schools. On average the students at westlake and westwood are smarter. If I had to guess LASA probably has the smartest students because it pulls from all of austin vs. westwood and westlake which pull from much smaller areas.
1) Obviously, I don't have a statistically significant sampling, I only teach a portion of the top 8%, and a small portion of that, because thank Jesus I don't teach every freshman, and a chunk of the top 8% go elsewhere for college.
2) Please tell me what personal my biases are.
3) All IQ tests test is the ability to take IQ tests. Why would the "smartest" student rotate between a few schools? I think your biases are much more pronounced than mine. The LASA students do better at such tests because they have had much more practice at taking such tests. Your claim that the average Westlake or Westwood student might be smarter could be right. I wouldn't know, because the average Westlake or Westwood student is not going to make it into any class I teach. I stand by my claim that the exceptional Lanier or Reagan student is smarter than the exceptional Westlake or Westwood student. I see it nearly every semester.
And the truth is that most freshman teaching is remedial. 95% of them cannot consistently produce grammatical sentences, cannot distinguish between argument and evidence, or primary and secondary research sources, can barely read for narrative content, let alone ideological or any other kind of perspective: can't think, can't read, can't write, irrespective of where they went to high school. Fortunately, most of them can learn quickly, but they have to unlearn a hundred bad habits that they picked up at home or in high school first.
Last edited by homeinatx; 12-31-2012 at 09:22 PM..
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