Another gay bashing incident? What the heck? (Austin: buying, public schools)

[Paulmmm]

Originally Posted by CptnRn

That is how almost every physical altercation starts, with yelling and shouting. He escalated the situation by yelling and swearing back instead of trying to disarm it. Not smart especially when you are out numbered. If anything was pathetic it was his behavior. He endangered not only himself but is friend who was with him.

So from what you wrote, the initial yelling of swears and slurs by the criminals just because 2 friends hugged goodbye wasn't pathetic. The criminals getting out of the car to beat up the guys wasn't pathetic. The criminals outnumbering and seriously hurting the guys wasn't pathetic. The only thing pathetic was the victim's behavior (which was yelling back at the criminals).

It really is just unbelievable that that type of thought process still exists in this day and age.

[CptnRn]

Originally Posted by Paulmmm

So from what you wrote, the initial yelling of swears and slurs by the criminals just because 2 friends hugged goodbye wasn't pathetic. The criminals getting out of the car to beat up the guys wasn't pathetic. The criminals outnumbering and seriously hurting the guys wasn't pathetic. The only thing pathetic was the victim's behavior (which was yelling back at the criminals).

It really is just unbelievable that that type of thought process still exists in this day and age.

I did not say or mean any of the things that you are trying to attribute to me. Yes those guys were criminals and behaved badly. You are turning this into a personal attack against me because you don't like my opinion. How pathetic is that?

[Paulmmm]

Originally Posted by CptnRn

I did not say or mean any of the things that you are trying to attribute to me. Yes those guys were criminals and behaved badly. You are turning this into a personal attack against me because you don't like my opinion. How pathetic is that?

This is EXACTLY what you posted:
"That is how almost every physical altercation starts, with yelling and shouting. He escalated the situation by yelling and swearing back instead of trying to disarm it. Not smart especially when you are out numbered. If anything was pathetic it was his behavior. He endangered not only himself but is friend who was with him."

The sentence "If anything was pathetic it was his behavior" says very directly that the only pathetic behavior (if any) in the physical altercation was the victim's. It's true that I don't like your opinion, but it seems to be you who doesn't like your own words. This is your 5th post in this thread, and it is the very first one where you even bothered to say that the attackers acted badly. Instead, every other post of yours was along the lines of dismissing it as no big deal - So what?; Get over it.; The victims escalated it.; They don't have street smarts.; The witnesses apparently didn't think it was that big a deal.; and "If anything was pathetic it was his (victim's) behavior."

So yeah, that type of thinking does disgust me. But since those are your own words, I can only assume that it doesn't disgust you. So at least now we both know where the other is coming from, and I really don't have anything else to say about it, other than I hope the victims recover well, and that the criminals are caught and prosecuted.

[mark311]

I think we can all agree that any assault is a horrible incident. As far as I'm concerned, you can throw the guys who started the assault in jail for 10 years. There's no reason to physically assault anyone even if provoked verbally.

What made this thread take a bad turn was the quote from the Op below:

Originally Posted by nomore07

What's even more pathetic is that nobody at the scene stepped in. This is not the city (or people) that it once was.

While it's unfortunate that this assault happened, other than calling the police to report it, it's not the job of other Austinites to step in on an assault. If you are stating that nobody called 911 to get the police on the scene, then yes, I agree that everyone watching this happen wasn't very thoughtful and I'm actually not surprised that drunken people dowtown at 1:30am are that stupid. My first instinct would be to take my cell phone out of my pocket and dial 911. If you think that the city has gone downhill because people didn't want to jump in on an attack with possibly armed suspects then that just doesn't make sense to me.

[ammonman]

Look, people, I think everyone here can agree that the gay-bashers committed an unacceptable crime. Likewise, I think most of us can agree that in retrospect, there may have been a smarter way for the victims to react to the slurs. I don't think people are really arguing over these two points.

People are arguing over CptnRn's rhetoric. And I'm sorry, but I do find it pretty alarming. I do think it's analogous to think of this in the context of a rape or a racially-motivated hate crime. If five men yell at a provocatively dressed woman walking downtown late at night and she yells back, is her behavior "pathetic?" What about five rednecks yelling a racial slur at a black man? If he yells back, is his behavior "pathetic?"

I get where you're coming from, CptnRn, and I agree with your point, but you're making it in a very insensitive and calloused way, and I don't think that you would be using the same kind of language if the characters in this story were different.

[CarnivalGal]

This incident (and some of the replies to this post) just illustrates that Austin is not as liberal / tolerant / accepting as it claims to be.

[JuneOf48]

Originally Posted by ammonman

People are arguing over CptnRn's rhetoric. And I'm sorry, but I do find it pretty alarming. I do think it's analogous to think of this in the context of a rape or a racially-motivated hate crime. If five men yell at a provocatively dressed woman walking downtown late at night and she yells back, is her behavior "pathetic?" What about five rednecks yelling a racial slur at a black man? If he yells back, is his behavior "pathetic?"

Exactly. If you hear a group of people being intentionally threatened for their race, their sexuality, or their gender--and hence being forced out of a public space for fear of violence--and you do NOTHING to stop the action, either by walking up and showing that people will NOT tolerate that, or by screaming for the police, or by taking out your phone and making calls and taking pictures, you are aiding and abetting the creation of a hostile city environment. The people of Austin shouldn't do that, and neither should the people of any other city. It's cowardice, pure and simple. Thugs continue to call people "f----t" and force them out of public because they know so few people will step up and try to do anything about it. This event wasn't in private.

I'm not saying you have to start "bashing the bashers," but frankly, getting in there and pulling people away from each other would be a true "hero's" way of handling things. Not all of us have the strength or the courage (or the numbers) to do that, but gay people get beaten--and even killed--in situations like this all the time. The next time you walk away without saying or doing anything, the person lying on the street might not get up again. In this incident and many others, they weren't the ones who started throwing punches. And they were RIGHT to yell back on a crowded Austin street where they rightfully expected onlookers to aid them, rather than to ignore them.

[Nomadic9460678748]

"While it's unfortunate that this assault happened, other than calling the police to report it, it's not the job of other Austinites to step in on an assault."

I must disagree.

Case in point?

Murder of Kitty Genovese - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Arguably the most distressful extreme of failing to act (the senseless loss of a life, but imagine if but one individual had possessed the courage to so much as scream, go downstairs, anything?).

All it takes is one person with courage. Does that mean the courage to come bounding forth brandishing a weapon, threatening your own blows? No. It might only mean raising your voice, yelling for the cessation of stupidities. Part of keeping your community safe is feeling a responsibility for the safety of those around you, at least, that is how I feel.

[mark311]

Originally Posted by mm57553

This incident (and some of the replies to this post) just illustrates that Austin is not as liberal / tolerant / accepting as it claims to be.

Actually, it has no indication of how liberal / tolerant / accepting Austin is as a whole. This is a horrible thing, but you can't generalize an entire city due to a few events. A person was shot and killed at a gay pride event in San Francisco last June. Does that mean that San Francisco as a whole is not as liberal / tolerant / accepting as it advertises? No, it just means that there are stupid/ignorant people that live in San Francisco as well.

Teen dies, 2 others injured in Castro shootings

This type of crime happens everywhere. One solution would be to put the attackers in jail for a very long time to deter this sort of behavior. I agree with the other posters that said there should be more police downtown in general. That might have helped to prevent this from escalating.

[Moekazi]

I don't think the yelling back was pathetic. What is pathetic is that the guy thought it'd somehow make everything better. It didn't, and 99% of the time it won't. He's being obviously threatened. If it were just one guy with a gun instead of 5 guys with fists, should he yell back? According to some of you, he should because he's standing up for himself. I, personally, don't find it very intelligent.

For those of you trying to compare this to racial issues, let's not forget Rev. King. He understood that there was a time and place to stand up for your beliefs. It was not at 1:30am outside a bar. It did not involve directly taunting/arguing with those who opposed those beliefs.