Why no "San Antonio/Austin light rail or bullet train yet? (Houston: buy, closing)

[inthecut]

Originally Posted by jazznblues

You're right they don't need $84B up front. But they need the commitment for it. No matter how you pace the need for the funding - it is a gigantic amount of money.

FWIW - I think San Antonio should not be a high priority destination for rail. Houston-Dallas has a far greater quantity of business travelers - who are the primary weekday travelers.

Good last point..not to slight San Antonio, but Austin itself would be a more vital loci, being the capitol and a far more popular place to go for recreation...San Antonio would have to be a spur jutting off the triangle of Austin-Houstin-DFW...The SA Spur would prob be built last as an adjunct to the main triangle...other Texas metros, possibly even El Paso, could be built as time goes on...A spur that goes to the Mexican Border at a major crossing would make sense as well, for tourism and work related travel on both ends.....

The two cities with the highest likelhood of usage should be built first...I would have to sat DFW-Houston would be the obvious first connection. After that Austin-Houston can increase it, and Austin -DFW would complete it..the spur off the triangle to San Antonio would be built last.

[jazznblues]

Originally Posted by eileenkeeney

This gives me an Idea,

Hire Disney to design a good Transit system for Austin (and surrounding areas).
Disney is very good at logistics, related to moving people.
I remember being a kid, and visiting DisneyLand, and my Dad pointing out how good Disney was at moving people in an efficient orderly manner.
They still seem to be leaders in this area.

It is relatively easy to design and implement a system when you own the land, financing, and can recover the costs via sales of expensive Disney tickets. You don't need to get voters to approve massive bonds.

[thesonofgray]

Originally Posted by eileenkeeney

If I were not required to pay taxes that subsidize what I do not use; I am certain that I would save more than enough in taxes to buy a very nice hybrid vehicle and hire a driver to take me anywhere I now go by bus.

I highly doubt that.

[DarkWolf]

You can reduce or Eliminate subsides by

Using Concrete ties

Modern Switches

Updated Signals

Modern fuel saving trains aka DMU's if your building a Diesel High Speed line

EMU's if your building a Electric line , although a push-pull Electric HST is better used for lower used lines.

Train lengths according to the time of day....your not going to run a 12 car train at 2am or 11am. The 12 car trains should run between the hours of 5-7am and 4-7pm.

Surprisingly you don't need that many riders to reduce or eliminate the need for subsides it all comes down to the size of the system and the capacity of the trains. A Higher Capacity train that doesn't fill will mean you need to subsidize it , if it fills you probably will get a surplus form it. Most Amtrak / HST trains can hold between 276 passengers up to a 690 as called for in the newer Northeastern fleets. The Trains have more leg room , you can get up and walk around , you don't need to go through the annoying airport screening and HST can travel through the worst of the worst of weather like fog, ice , snow , high winds , etc. Although Texas Hail storms , Twisters , and Floods would stop a train in its tracks....

[Austin97]

Originally Posted by CptnRn

I think it would end up being just like the current Capital Metro system where the majority of the tax payers, most of who do not use the service, pay 88% of the budget to subsidize the few riders who use it, while the riders pay only 4% of the budget in fares.

People need to learn to hold their meetings by teleconferencing, I have done my share of business travel and it was usually a huge waste of time and money for a little bit of face time with clients and consultants.

Just keep in mind many other government services are like that. Like the library system, the park system (i.e. zilker, golf course, pools), public television channels, public health etc

The question is whether the cost per use is in line with other types of expenditures and the value generated to the community is somewhat aligned as well.

rail transportation for the people who use it saves a ton of time and allows them to live the green lifestyle they want to live. It also attracts a particular creative class that become available for jobs and stimulates growth and density along the rail system. These things could be measured (but probably arent). But the benefit of libraries isnt really measured either, especially in this day of electronic data (i.e. we could kill the library and pay for everyone to have an internet connection).

[inthecut]

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

You can reduce or Eliminate subsides by

Using Concrete ties

Modern Switches

Updated Signals

Modern fuel saving trains aka DMU's if your building a Diesel High Speed line

EMU's if your building a Electric line , although a push-pull Electric HST is better used for lower used lines.

Train lengths according to the time of day....your not going to run a 12 car train at 2am or 11am. The 12 car trains should run between the hours of 5-7am and 4-7pm.

Surprisingly you don't need that many riders to reduce or eliminate the need for subsides it all comes down to the size of the system and the capacity of the trains. A Higher Capacity train that doesn't fill will mean you need to subsidize it , if it fills you probably will get a surplus form it. Most Amtrak / HST trains can hold between 276 passengers up to a 690 as called for in the newer Northeastern fleets. The Trains have more leg room , you can get up and walk around , you don't need to go through the annoying airport screening and HST can travel through the worst of the worst of weather like fog, ice , snow , high winds , etc. Although Texas Hail storms , Twisters , and Floods would stop a train in its tracks....

Nexis, I have a few questions for you...How, if maglev and other newer train technology have been common in japan and europe for years now, can we NOT afford this, as some say? How popular are they in J and E? I would imagine they are very much so in Europe. Even phrases like "eurail pass" is in the common vernacular out there...


Eurorail Tickets, Europe Train Tickets & Europe Rail Ticket | Eurail

That being said, travelling in cars sucks on just about every level...it is a pleasure to remove oneself from it, if one can find a nice alternative for short trips, ala bullt trains...why can't we have that in Texas, and in other states with large populations and several metros, like California, FLorida, and the megalopolis on the eastern seaboard perhaps most of all..the most popular Amtrak route is NYC - Boston....Why not a BT that goes through the entire string of cities there? Bullet trains are about as fast as plains for short trips, when you take away the time spent with airport hassles, and the immediacy of just getting the hell out of there when you arrive...no baggage carousel craziness at all..just get up and elave, like you are getting out of your car...and it would be fun as well....

[DarkWolf]

Originally Posted by inthecut

Nexis, I have a few questions for you...How, if maglev and other newer train technology have been common in japan and europe for years now, can we NOT afford this, as some say? How popular are they in J and E? I would imagine they are very much so in Europe. Even phrases like "eurail pass" is in the common vernacular out there...


Eurorail Tickets, Europe Train Tickets & Europe Rail Ticket | Eurail

That being said, travelling in cars sucks on just about every level...it is a pleasure to remove oneself from it, if one can find a nice alternative for short trips, ala bullt trains...why can't we have that in Texas, and in other states with large populations and several metros, like California, FLorida, and the megalopolis on the eastern seaboard perhaps most of all..the most popular Amtrak route is NYC - Boston....Why not a BT that goes through the entire string of cities there? Bullet trains are about as fast as plains for short trips, when you take away the time spent with airport hassles, and the immediacy of just getting the hell out of there when you arrive...no baggage carousel craziness at all..just get up and elave, like you are getting out of your car...and it would be fun as well....

Maglevs aren't common around the world , Japan is building one line in phases should open between Tokyo and Osaka in 2045. China is focusing on building Cheaper High Speed Rail lines , which are just as good as Maglev. The Technology for cheaper Maglev lines is at least 20-30 years away. Japan's Railway culture is huge , people use the trains to go everywhere , although in the Rural Areas that is not that case. People tend to drive more in Rural areas and take trains into the larger towns and cities. In Europe Trains are used for an alt to flying , traveling around the state/country , commuting and for recreational trips. There still expanding there network , and enhancing it in most of the EU and Russia. I think they have a Rail pass , Amtrak has one. Although the Amtrak one is used for shorter lines in the Midwest , Northeast and West Coast. Hehe , Traveling by Amtrak up here is relaxing direct Downtown to Downtown Access. By 2040 every city / Major town in the Northeast / Mid Atlantic should have Rail lines and connecting services in them. I don't know why you don't have system yet. Southwest Airlines doesn't care about fighting something like this anymore , since it would free up air space.

[hoffdano]

ITC - Mag-lev trains are NOT popular anywhere except as fascinating technology for science and engineering students to study.

There are only three operational mag-lev trains in the world, only one is high speed (Shanghai). And its track is just 19 miles long. The other two travel at car-like speeds or slower.

Maglev (transport) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Traveling by car does not suck per se. It certainly can - but it can be very enjoyable for me.

I have ridden the Shinkansen several times while on business in Japan. It is a remarkable system. Certain runs are particularly good connnecting concentrations of business travelers. Others are probably more useful for leisure travelers.

I also rode the TGV in Europe - from Lausanne to Paris and back. Also a beautiful ride - but the tickets (reserved, but not first class), were barely cheaper than air.

Finally I rode the Acela Express about seven years ago - from Boston to NYC. Not a bad ride at all - but not especially fast and there were many stops. I think this train is relatively popular - I think the low hassle factor could be appealing for people who need to travel these routes frequently.

Texas though is a whole 'nuther story.

[Austin97]

Originally Posted by inthecut

Nexis, I have a few questions for you...How, if maglev and other newer train technology have been common in japan and europe for years now, can we NOT afford this, as some say? How popular are they in J and E? I would imagine they are very much so in Europe. Even phrases like "eurail pass" is in the common vernacular out there...

The issue is the us is much bigger with a lot less density of population.

Japan has around 1550 miles of high speed rail with a population density of about 873 people/sq mile.

The us has a population density of around 80/sq mile.

Germany is 600/sq mile
UK is 650/sq mile
Spain is 235/sq mile

The other euro countries are pretty comparable around 500/sq mile

New york state has a population density of about 400/sq mile

New england in general is around 200/sq mile

[CptnRn]

Originally Posted by thesonofgray

1. Capital Metro is a terrible transit authority. They're just awful.

I agree, but I'm not sure its just my perception. I have used public transit in LA, Denver, San Franciso and all were much better. But I'm not certain that much of Capital Metro's problems are not a result of the poor roadway infrastructure we have allowed to develop here in Austin.

2. If we followed a rule that no one should be made to "subsidize" public services they don't use as much as others, this nation would fall apart (and I'd say most if not all nations would fall apart).

I did not suggest that we eliminate those public services, but this in, at least in Austin, Texas serves only a very small handful of people. So very few of us are getting anything for our money.