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If Vinings doesn't incorporate now, it may never have the chance. As others have mentioned, the only way Vinings would be viable as a city would be if it included Cumberland Mall and the Galleria area offices. If Smyrna annexed those areas first, Vinings would have a limited tax base (aside from Publix, Kroger, Home Depot, and some of the shops and restaurants on Paces Ferry).
Before everyone says no, we need some solid financial analysis to take a look at what the resulting tax revenues would be, the costs needed to sustain the city, and any increased taxes (if any).
I'm just afraid that the future will play out something like this:
2012: Economic pressures force Cobb to cut back on services. Rural and unincorporated areas are most vulnerable.
2013: Smyrna incorporates Cumberland Mall / Galleria to bolster its own tax base.
2014: Smyrna development picks up at a rapid pace; Atlanta Rd. near the intersection of Cumberland Blvd. is growing quickly with bars and restaurants to rival Virginia Highlands.
2015: Paces Ferry's traffic problems grow exponentially as it is increasingly used for through-traffic going to Smyrna. Paces Ferry shops and restaurants suffer as white collar customers are turned away by congestion and blue collars drive past and continue on to Smyrna.
2016: Paces Ferry shops and restaurants adapt their business models to cater to blue collar. Business picks up but so does crime.
2017: Three people are killed at the Paces Ferry railroad junction (one drunk pedestrian, two in a vehicle attempting to evade police). It becomes a horn junction.
2018: Vinings is dubbed "Little New Orleans" by the AJC, citing the positives (popular patio and riverfront restaurants) and negatives (crime, congestion, and noise).
2019: Crime becomes increasingly violent. Women are advised not to walk alone at night. Vinings property values steadily fall. Residents are desperate for a solution but incorporating as a city would mean a significant tax increase since Cumberland Mall and Galleria are already part of Smyrna.
2020: Smyrna incorporates Vinings. The two are no longer distinct socially or economically anymore anyway. "Vinings" becomes a term used less and less often, fewer still understand it, and it becomes nothing more than a novelty in the names of restaurants and apartments (often in Smyrna).
This is exaggerated but I'm trying to make the point that the status-quo might not last forever. In order to preserve the Vinings we know and love, we may have to incorporate as a defensive measure.
Vinings is not going to incorporate anytime soon. As recently as 2008 thier was a community meeting about it, and most of the residents were opposed. The people dont have enough problems with Cobb County, the way it is run, or the services offered to justify incorporating.
Vinings would fight a Smyrna annexation of the Cumberland area (or any part of the area in between 285 and the river) tooth and nail. Smyrna still has a blue-collar reputation with most longtime Vinings residents, and it probably doesnt help when they see how much the Vinings name has been stretched and diluted into areas of Smyrna.
Vinings will incorporate - but it won't be due to the scenario described by SkyPirate.
Instead, the Cobb County Board of Commissioners will begin to reflect the growing diversity of Cobb, especially in politcal views. This will happen just as quick as it did in DeKalb. Then, youll see the residents of Vinings start to make the same arguments that the people in Dunwoody and Sandy Springs used to justify thier incorporation - unfair use of tax dollars, crime, inefficient government, no control over development, etc.
This tipping point hasnt been reached yet, but with the direction Cobb has been moving, it shouldnt be too far off in the future.
Last edited by BringBackCobain; 04-04-2010 at 07:13 PM..
First of all, under present Georgia law, it is impossible for Georgia municipalities to forcibly annex property. The property owners have to petition the city to annex them and the property has to be adjacent to other property which is already in the municipality. So, unless Cumberland Mall and the Galleria office park solicit Smyrna for annexation, it's not going to happen.
Also, in regards to your fears about "blue collars frequenting the businesses in Vinings", it's not going to happen. Vinings is a small upscale community with two lane roads which are not conducive to the crowds Midtown and Buckhead receive in their bar districts. The draw for living in Vinings is close proimity to the prestigious (and expensive) private schools down the hill - Lovett and Westminster where tuition runs around $20K a year per child. Given these realities, it is unlikely a blue collar population is going to take root. In fact the older 1970's area apartments called, The Lakes, behind the Quick Trip were eliminated to accomodate the Condos and Avalon development where townhomes start at $600K and single family homes at $900K. So what little middle class housing there was has been removed to accomodate high end homes.
The Vinings Homeowner's Association has a good handle on the area (esssentailly runs it)and if they don't want property to be zoned in a certain way, it is extremely unlikely the Cobb County Commission will ignore their wishes.
In general, your doomsday prediction for the decline of Vinings is not going to happen.
Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by netdragon
That's not true. Atlanta is always trying to annex Vinings. It's up to the Vinings residents, so there is no reason for them not to be content.
Incoporation would bleed Vinings residents dry. There aren't enough people in Vinings to be able to support a viable city. It isn't a farm-town and has a lot of big-city problems to deal with. Cobb County helps spread that out.
If it were ever to incorporate, it would only be viable to incorporate along with Cumberland, along with the area near the intersection of Power's Ferry and Aker's Mill.
However, Smyrna may get there first.
Anyway, Vinings is doing just fine as-is. It doesn't need to incorporate until the rest of Cobb County has incorporated and county services get cut back. That may never happen.
Vinings is mostly in Cobb so it would probably be Smyrna if they are annexed. Vinings really does not have a large enough population to incorporate itself unless state law which requires that incorporated cities provide 6 of 8 essential services (schools, police, fire/EMS, water/sewer, street miantenance, garbage collection, libraries, parks). Smyrna already provides the necessary services.
Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
16,259 posts, read 24,774,755 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BringBackCobain
Vinings is not going to incorporate anytime soon. As recently as 2008 thier was a community meeting about it, and most of the residents were opposed. The people dont have enough problems with Cobb County, the way it is run, or the services offered to justify incorporating.
Vinings would fight a Smyrna annexation of the Cumberland area (or any part of the area in between 285 and the river) tooth and nail. Smyrna still has a blue-collar reputation with most longtime Vinings residents, and it probably doesnt help when they see how much the Vinings name has been stretched and diluted into areas of Smyrna.
Vinings will incorporate - but it won't be due to the scenario described by SkyPirate.
Instead, the Cobb County Board of Commissioners will begin to reflect the growing diversity of Cobb, especially in politcal views. This will happen just as quick as it did in DeKalb. Then, youll see the residents of Vinings start to make the same arguments that the people in Dunwoody and Sandy Springs used to justify thier incorporation - unfair use of tax dollars, crime, inefficient government, no control over development, etc.
This tipping point hasnt been reached yet, but with the direction Cobb has been moving, it shouldnt be too far off in the future.
I would not say that. I used to think that when Big Mouth Little Brain Bill Byrne ran Cobb and tried to make it a haven for brainless rednecks and bigots but since us transplants from up north came here and made competent government a priority, the county has been well ran for the most part under the leadership of Sam Olens.
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Location: St Simons Island, GA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevK
I would not say that. I used to think that when Big Mouth Little Brain Bill Byrne ran Cobb and tried to make it a haven for brainless rednecks and bigots but since us transplants from up north came here and made competent government a priority, the county has been well ran for the most part under the leadership of Sam Olens.
Well, at least your contempt for Southerners isn't presented in a passive-aggressive manner. Refreshing.
First of all, under present Georgia law, it is impossible for Georgia municipalities to forcibly annex property. The property owners have to petition the city to annex them and the property has to be adjacent to other property which is already in the municipality. So, unless Cumberland Mall and the Galleria office park solicit Smyrna for annexation, it's not going to happen.
Also, in regards to your fears about "blue collars frequenting the businesses in Vinings", it's not going to happen. Vinings is a small upscale community with two lane roads which are not conducive to the crowds Midtown and Buckhead receive in their bar districts. The draw for living in Vinings is close proimity to the prestigious (and expensive) private schools down the hill - Lovett and Westminster where tuition runs around $20K a year per child. Given these realities, it is unlikely a blue collar population is going to take root. In fact the older 1970's area apartments called, The Lakes, behind the Quick Trip were eliminated to accomodate the Condos and Avalon development where townhomes start at $600K and single family homes at $900K. So what little middle class housing there was has been removed to accomodate high end homes.
The Vinings Homeowner's Association has a good handle on the area (esssentailly runs it)and if they don't want property to be zoned in a certain way, it is extremely unlikely the Cobb County Commission will ignore their wishes.
In general, your doomsday prediction for the decline of Vinings is not going to happen.
David,
Thank you for your comments. It would be nice to know that we can't be forcibly annexed. With that said, what was the whole point of the "Chattahoochee Plantation" tactic many years ago? I thought that was to prevent Atlanta from forcibly annexing Vinings.
Btw, there are still apartments up on the hill (Mt. Wilkerson aka "Vinings Mountain"). I think there are at least three apartment complexes in fact. There are also a number of apartment complexes just south of Paces Ferry along Cumberland Blvd.
Anyway, everyone else is incorporating and I figured that Vinings is a great town with a lot to lose if things take a bad turn. Why risk it or wait until it is too late? Incorporating will enable us to take things into our own hands and make sure our interests (and tax dollars) are represented and managed - by US, for US.
With that said, what was the whole point of the "Chattahoochee Plantation" tactic many years ago? I thought that was to prevent Atlanta from forcibly annexing Vinings.
It was created mainly to prevent Atlanta from annexing into East Cobb--at least portions of it.
"Chattahoochee Plantation" was/is well north of Vinings. I'm not sure how far south the "10 foot-wide, seven mile long" incorporated city extended. It may have extended all the way down to, even beyond, Vinings.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David1502
First of all, under present Georgia law, it is impossible for Georgia municipalities to forcibly annex property. The property owners have to petition the city to annex them and the property has to be adjacent to other property which is already in the municipality. So, unless Cumberland Mall and the Galleria office park solicit Smyrna for annexation, it's not going to happen.
Also, in regards to your fears about "blue collars frequenting the businesses in Vinings", it's not going to happen. Vinings is a small upscale community with two lane roads which are not conducive to the crowds Midtown and Buckhead receive in their bar districts. The draw for living in Vinings is close proimity to the prestigious (and expensive) private schools down the hill - Lovett and Westminster where tuition runs around $20K a year per child. Given these realities, it is unlikely a blue collar population is going to take root. In fact the older 1970's area apartments called, The Lakes, behind the Quick Trip were eliminated to accomodate the Condos and Avalon development where townhomes start at $600K and single family homes at $900K. So what little middle class housing there was has been removed to accomodate high end homes.
The Vinings Homeowner's Association has a good handle on the area (esssentailly runs it)and if they don't want property to be zoned in a certain way, it is extremely unlikely the Cobb County Commission will ignore their wishes.
In general, your doomsday prediction for the decline of Vinings is not going to happen.
David, I completely agree with your assessment. If anything, it would seem that the upscale cachet of Vinings has been radiating out into neighboring communities, not the other way around. I think Vinings' future is about as secure as that of any neighborhood in Atlanta.
Vinings is mostly in Cobb so it would probably be Smyrna if they are annexed. Vinings really does not have a large enough population to incorporate itself unless state law which requires that incorporated cities provide 6 of 8 essential services (schools, police, fire/EMS, water/sewer, street miantenance, garbage collection, libraries, parks). Smyrna already provides the necessary services.
This is not true. Peachtree Corners is trying to incorporate and they plan on only providing trash collection, zoning/planning, and median landscape maintenance. They plan on paying Gwinnett to provide police, fire, etc. Berkley Lake in Gwinnett and Pine Lake in DeKalb operate in a similar fashion.
If Peachtree Corners does incorporate, you could see Vinings using thier model. They are somewhat similar cases in that the problem is not the county but lack of control over zoning and development.
the Ptree corners movement was also spurred by a failed attempt by Norcross to annex Technology Park, an area as crucial to a potential city of peachtree Corners as cumberland would be to a city of vinings. If Smyrna tried to annex Cumberland, it might revive the Vinings incorporation push. And Smyrna could annex cumberland without a petition - they could get thier state reprentative to sponsor legislation and then get more than 50% of the voters to say yes in a referendum.
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