Tyler Perry... (Atlanta, Decatur: home, school, college)

[afonega1]

Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb

And nobody said that Tyler Perry is responsible for upholding black people's integrity, but I'm be darned if I'm going to support people who tear it down. I'm not going to spend a lot more time on this issue because frankly, if someone doesn't know garbage when they see it then I can't help them. If Perry's movies were mere silliness, or foolishness I wouldn't care about them one way or another, but images are forever. When he consistently makes movies where all the successful black women are crazy or somehow dysfunctional until they find that magical blue collar brother, he's sending a damaging message. When he creates Madea, the absolute prototype for yet another masculine-acting black 'woman,' when he consistently makes movies where the bad people are always dark-complected, that goes well beyond mere silliness.

I'm so sick of people telling me that Madea is like black women they know. That's not physically possible. Caster Semenya aside, BLACK WOMEN ARE NOT MEN! Madea can't be like black women you know because she's a man! Have we really bought into the myth that black women aren't women? Are we really this freaking sick?

And why is it that the only men you see routinely playing female roles happen to be BLACK! Why aren't black men in an uproar about that? Are you just so happy that Perry is making money you don't mind this assault on your masculinity even though black men are endlessly slaughtering one another in the streets in a fruitless effort to prove their manhood? Or is it because you've decided that Madea is somehow not a man, and of course, the assault on black women's femininity is of no consequence to you? I just want someone to explain this to me. Why aren't black men in an uproar over Evander Holyfield's new Taco Bell commercial? Is it somehow okay because these men have money? It's just too bizarre for words.

Well i see...Breathe...I scared to reply.LOL..I get it.I really do.I just don't SEE it the way do.
This is what I get out of it:

Have we really bought into the myth that black women aren't women?

NO!!I don't know anyone who has thank god!!

Madea-To me Madea is Tp's "homage" to all the great black women like his grandmother that held down the "fort", the anchor,the glue.Women in the black community for years have raised these little black boys into man hood.If more were women in that mold,then we would not have men growing up to be almost useless to society.
Of course TP's portrayal is exagerrated.That is what comedy is.An exaggeration of the truth.
t It was in his way and the way that men have done it in the past.
The greatest form of flattery IS imitation.
The only men playing women have been black?That is not true."Some like it Hot".(Jack Lemon,Tony Curtis);"To Wong Foo"(Jon Leguizamo,Patrick Swayze);Mrs.Doubtfire(Robin Williams)"HairSpray"John Travolta.etc.....Men have been playing the roles of women since Shakespeare's time.

I see if you believe that the way people view these movies are looking at characters like Madea as making fun of black women,perhaps some do.I do not.The people I know do not.I'm sure they exist,but people that think that way,are idiots that will think any way the wind blows.That is never gonna change.
Just like those black men that are slaughtering each other as you put it,I am being the responsible black male that my parents raised me to be.I don't worry about what other do.Nor do I worry about what others think.Masculinity and orientation have nothing to do with the other.I don't know anyone that see's that character as some sort of attack on a womans femininity nor do I see it on a males masculinity.So your argument is baseless on that.
Oprah Winfrey produced "Beloved" about a woman that murdered her own child.They were dysfunctional women.
"The Color Purple" again about dysfunctional women.
All these movies have shown vulnerability of the HUMAN psyche.Not just black women but PEOPLE.When there is negativity,many times comes the dysfunction.Unforturnately in the African American experience in America involves a history of negativity.
As far as your color comment you are wrong.In more than one of the movies,the "crackhead" was a very lightskin mother of a single man who was taking care of his family as a lawyer.

In the "Family That Preys",Alfre Woodard(a dark skinned award winning actress) is the central figure.Most of the women in that (and most of his films)film were medium complexion.

In most of the Madea movies;The great Cisley Tyson plays the patrtiarch of the whole family.

One of the messages that I get out of the movies is that many women are looking for a executive type brother that is well paid,but they overlook the guy that is the mechanic or the janitor because of their idea that those men have nothing to offer.

Truth is we as black people are equal.We have earned the RIGHT to be STUPID.I know that sounds trite but it is less than what you are making it to be.

[Iconographer]

Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb

In other words, black women are so masculine we can have a man play us with ease. I can't believe we don't have a problem with that.

Not all black women...I think TP is trying to embody an archetype in Madea that does exist in the black community; the strong, outspoken grandmother who did it without the help of a male along the way. I frankly love her and have IRL met a few 'Madeas'.
Oh and don't think that this archetype was limited to the black community...my Scotch-Irish grandmother used to scare the bejeezus out of us. We would look at pictures of her as a stunning flapper in the 1920's and say, "How is that even possible?"

[RoslynHolcomb]

Soooo, if there are so many of them why couldn't he find a woman to play that role? And further, this country is full of Scots-Irish people. Presumably many of them have scary grandmothers that they pay "homage" to. Interestingly enough, no matter how STRONG a white woman might be, you don't consistently have MEN playing them in mainstream movies.

Originally Posted by LovinDecatur

Not all black women...I think TP is trying to embody an archetype in Madea that does exist in the black community; the strong, outspoken grandmother who did it without the help of a male along the way. I frankly love her and have IRL met a few 'Madeas'.
Oh and don't think that this archetype was limited to the black community...my Scotch-Irish grandmother used to scare the bejeezus out of us. We would look at pictures of her as a stunning flapper in the 1920's and say, "How is that even possible?"

[Cotncndy30]

Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb

Soooo, if there are so many of them why couldn't he find a woman to play that role?

Yes, he could have, but choose a different way to bring his ideas to film. He's portraying idealistic situations that people have to or have faced in their lives. Tyler Perry is wonderful, for the record. I love his films!

[Iconographer]

Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb

Soooo, if there are so many of them why couldn't he find a woman to play that role? And further, this country is full of Scots-Irish people. Presumably many of them have scary grandmothers that they pay "homage" to. Interestingly enough, no matter how STRONG a white woman might be, you don't consistently have MEN playing them in mainstream movies.

Believe me, Roslyn, I do get your point...but I think back in the days when TP was producing his plays on a shoestring, he made the decision to play the character himself. So, I infer that economics and the obvious comic effect it would have was the basis of his decision to create 'Madea', and not a statement of the lack of femininity of black women. And if I may further stir the pot, I think in the modern age that black women on the whole are doing a much better job of preserving their femininity than are white women.
Oh, and you should rent 'Die, Mommie, Die!" sometime...the lead character, a glamorous film and singing star, is played by Charles Busch...a man. He totally pulls it off.

[RoslynHolcomb]

The only men playing women have been black?That is not true."Some like it Hot".(Jack Lemon,Tony Curtis);"To Wong Foo"(Jon Leguizamo,Patrick Swayze);Mrs.Doubtfire(Robin Williams)"HairSpray"John Travolta.etc.....Men have been playing the roles of women since Shakespeare's time.

How many times do I have to address this in one thread? None of those movies, with the exception of John Travolta in Hairspray are MEN playing WOMEN. They are all MEN portraying MEN who pretend to be women, or they're crossdressers in Leguziamo's case. Only, ONLY, ONLY with black men do you have MEN who are playing the role of a woman. Just name one. And please tell me how that's NOT saying that black men and women are interchangeable.

As for this notion of homage to his grandmother. Well, I don't know Perry or his grandmother, but I would imagine a good forensic psychiatrist would have a field day with an "homage" that involves giving his grandmother a penis and an Adam's apple. Oh yeah, that's incredibly heartwarming.

[RoslynHolcomb]

Presumably he's not on a shoestring anymore. By the time he started making movies he had more than adequate budget to hire an actress. And once again, if he were the only black man to do this you might have a point, but it's become a cottage industry. In fact, it's hard to think of a black man who hasn't at some time donned a dress. Then when you factor in athletes Holyfield and Johnson one really has to wonder.

And I for one, don't think black women's image is all that feminine. In fact plenty of people, many of them black men, have no hesitancy in pointing out black women's supposed lack of femininity. And if they didn't think so, why would it be so commonplace for black men to assume the role?

Originally Posted by LovinDecatur

Believe me, Roslyn, I do get your point...but I think back in the days when TP was producing his plays on a shoestring, he made the decision to play the character himself. So, I infer that economics and the obvious comic effect it would have was the basis of his decision to create 'Madea', and not a statement of the lack of femininity of black women. And if I may further stir the pot, I think in the modern age that black women on the whole are doing a much better job of preserving their femininity than are white women.
Oh, and you should rent 'Die, Mommie, Die!" sometime...the lead character, a glamorous film and singing star, is played by Charles Busch...a man. He totally pulls it off.

[Iconographer]

Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb

Presumably he's not on a shoestring anymore. By the time he started making movies he had more than adequate budget to hire an actress. And once again, if he were the only black man to do this you might have a point, but it's become a cottage industry. In fact, it's hard to think of a black man who hasn't at some time donned a dress. Then when you factor in athletes Holyfield and Johnson one really has to wonder.

And I for one, don't think black women's image is all that feminine. In fact plenty of people, many of them black men, have no hesitancy in pointing out black women's supposed lack of femininity. And if they didn't think so, why would it be so commonplace for black men to assume the role?

Well, RH, as usual you've provided food for thought...I've never given this issue much consideration, to be honest. Wouldn't it make a great thesis?

[RoslynHolcomb]

Originally Posted by LovinDecatur

Well, RH, as usual you've provided food for thought...I've never given this issue much consideration, to be honest. Wouldn't it make a great thesis?

Uh-uh, I'm not doing another one. The first one darn near killed me. At this point in my life I'm not even taking a cake decorating class.

I just really want us to do some critical thinking in regard to image and presentation. I know that ideally they don't matter, but they do. More so now than ever. Interestingly enough, I can only think of three black male comedians who haven't donned a dress. Chapelle, Pryor and Rock. Interestingly enough, they're some of the biggest. Is that germane to the subject? I haven't a clue, but it is an interesting footnote.

Madea is forever. Rasputia is forever. Big Mama is forever. Wanda is forever. And on and on and on. At some point the question has to be asked.

[Iconographer]

Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb

Uh-uh, I'm not doing another one. The first one darn near killed me. At this point in my life I'm not even taking a cake decorating class.

I just really want us to do some critical thinking in regard to image and presentation. I know that ideally they don't matter, but they do. More so now than ever. Interestingly enough, I can only think of three black male comedians who haven't donned a dress. Chapelle, Pryor and Rock. Interestingly enough, they're some of the biggest. Is that germane to the subject? I haven't a clue, but it is an interesting footnote.

Madea is forever. Rasputia is forever. Big Mama is forever. Wanda is forever. And on and on and on. At some point the question has to be asked.

LOL I hear you on that one! I still have 'oral argument' nightmares.