I-285/Georgia 400 project gets big funding boost (Atlanta, North Atlanta: sale, real estate market)

[jsvh]

I-285/Georgia 400 project gets big funding boost - Atlanta Business Chronicle

Glad to see some infrastructure progress but we got to stop giving tax subsidies that are encouraging people to drive more in Atlanta. Wider freeways just bring more traffic. And only 38% of the money is coming from the Fuel taxes:

the State Transportation Board Thursday approved the sale of $130 million in previously authorized bonds and $81.5 million in accrued motor fuel tax revenue to accelerate reconstruction of the heavily traveled interchange just north of Buckhead

But this gives me some hope they may actually have some toll lanes to recover some of those subsidies:

The DOT plans to build the new interchange through a public-private partnership, the same approach the agency is using for the Northwest Corridor, a plan to add toll lanes along interstates 75 and 575 in Cobb and Cherokee counties.

[Big L]

The 285/400 interchange is a nightmare during the afternoon rush hour. I'm sure the people that I pass by in that long line heading northbound would welcome any type of relief.

[MattCW]

Even with the Red Line extension, this is still a much-needed project. I hope the GDOT can reciprocate in a few years when it's time to fund the Red Line extension to Windward.

[ATL Golfer]

Originally Posted by Big L

The 285/400 interchange is a nightmare during the afternoon rush hour. I'm sure the people that I pass by in that long line heading northbound would welcome any type of relief.

I'm not sure what relief people will receive??? Its bumper to bumper on GA400. So commuters getting on GA 400 North get to stomp on the brakes 45 seconds later than normal for a price tag of $210MM.

And commuters traveling Eastbound on 285 will hit traffic just 45 seconds later after they pass GA400 and hit the I85 backlog.

This solves nothing.

[WanderingImport]

Originally Posted by ATL Golfer

I'm not sure what relief people will receive??? Its bumper to bumper on GA400. So commuters getting on GA 400 North get to stomp on the brakes 45 seconds later than normal for a price tag of $210MM.

And commuters traveling Eastbound on 285 will hit traffic just 45 seconds later after they pass GA400 and hit the I85 backlog.

This solves nothing.

I disagree to a point. Part of the reason there is so much congestion on both freeways is because of THIS intersection. It WILL provide relief and IS much needed.

Will it solve the entire problem? Absolutely NOT. It's a good start though.

What's a good problem solver? A much expanded mass transit (MARTA) with added incentives to use such transit. TODs come to mind as one option.

[Big L]

Originally Posted by WanderingImport

I disagree to a point. Part of the reason there is so much congestion on both freeways is because of THIS intersection. It WILL provide relief and IS much needed.

Will it solve the entire problem? Absolutely NOT. It's a good start though.

What's a good problem solver? A much expanded mass transit (MARTA) with added incentives to use such transit. TODs come to mind as one option.

As you said, it won't solve the entire problem, but it is definitely a good start. 285 East is often backed up due to folks being stuck trying to take 400 north. Naturally, that affects those that have no intention of taking 400.

It is better to at least try to provide some relief than to just sit back and do nothing. I understand that we are in an anti-spending environment these days, but we can't say no to EVERY potential project.

Here's a good example of relief: The new ramp from 400 North from 85 South has already shaved some time off of my morning commute when I have to go through that area. Having to get off at the Lenox/Cheshire Bridge exit and then take the streets to 400 North was a pain that isn't typical for a metro area of this size. We are still playing "catch up" due to highways, surface streets, and interchanges being designed and built at a time when the metro area was smaller in both size and population. Projects like the 400/285 interchange are part of that "catch up".

[PKCorey]

It doesn't help that you have people who help create the jam because they are too important to wait in the line with everyone else for the GA 400N exit.

Anything that helps move the traffic through that area is an improvement.

[toll_booth]

I seriously hope that GADOT does not try to rebuild the entire interchange, because that would be a terrible waste of tax dollars. Instead, replacing just two of the ramps that cause a disproportionate number of the problem would work wonders:

(1) 285 east to 400 north. If you've never tried taking this ramp during evening rush hour, then you don't know the fun you're missing out on. It should be two lanes, it's only one, and the best part is--it dumps you into the LEFT lane of 400 with just a couple hundred feet to merge. Fun. Oh, and some people love to try to cut onto this exit at the last second.

(2) 400 south to 285 east. Ah, the good old cloverleaf (270-degree) interchange. Drivers seem to have their own determination for how fast they should drive around this ramp. And the last-minute lane-changers are common here, too.

[Born 2 Roll]

Originally Posted by Big L

As you said, it won't solve the entire problem, but it is definitely a good start. 285 East is often backed up due to folks being stuck trying to take 400 north. Naturally, that affects those that have no intention of taking 400.

It is better to at least try to provide some relief than to just sit back and do nothing. I understand that we are in an anti-spending environment these days, but we can't say no to EVERY potential project.

Here's a good example of relief: The new ramp from 400 North from 85 South has already shaved some time off of my morning commute when I have to go through that area. Having to get off at the Lenox/Cheshire Bridge exit and then take the streets to 400 North was a pain that isn't typical for a metro area of this size. We are still playing "catch up" due to highways, surface streets, and interchanges being designed and built at a time when the metro area was smaller in both size and population. Projects like the 400/285 interchange are part of that "catch up".

Excellent comments.

Though the problem with the I-285/GA 400 interchange was not necessarily just that the interchange was designed and built when the metro area was much-smaller in size in population.

The problem with the I-285/GA 400 interchange is that the state did not want to spend the money to rebuild the interchange correctly when they built the GA 400 Extension ITP through North Atlanta and Buckhead (...which is when the I-285/GA 400 interchange should have been rebuilt, between 20-25 years ago when the GA 400 Extension was built ITP).

The state was basically in a hurry to build the GA 400 Extension and did not want to make the tolls on GA 400 permanent so that they could fully pay to both reconstruct the I-285/GA 400 interchange and the correctly build the I-85/GA 400 interchange right the first time.

The state did not want to make the GA 400 tolls permanent because they knew that a toll-averse and increasingly road construction-averse voting public might not be so willing to go along with the construction of the potentially highly-controversial road.

Any resistance to the road would have easily killed the project in a political environment which was even back then becoming increasingly more hostile to anything that was deemed to be an unnecessary road construction project....Particularly inside of the I-285 Perimeter where there had been a history of public revolts ("Freeway Revolts") against building freeways through densely-populated urban areas since the East Atlanta Freeway Revolts of the 1960's and '70's against the construction of two freeways through historic neighborhoods in Intown East Atlanta.

The state was in a hurry to push through the GA 400 Extension project because some very high-powered and politically-influential business and real estate interests in Buckhead wanted the road constructed as a means of boosting the monetary value of the Buckhead commercial real estate market through the roof (which is what happened almost immediately after construction broke ground on the GA 400 Extension).

The state was fully aware and knew very-well that traffic would be an extreme problem at both the I-285 and I-85 interchanges on GA 400 after the GA 400 Extension opened, but they were in such a rush that they built the road without fully reconstructing and constructing the I-285 and I-85 interchanges because they knew that the longer they took to design and build the project, the greater chance there was that public opinion would eventually overwhelmingly turn against the speculative road construction project make it politically-impossible to construct.

The state and their powerful business and commercial real estate cronies had to move fast to get the road built or it would likely never be built...

...Which is why the state promised to take the tolls off of GA 400 after about less than 20 years without using the tolls to have fully financed the much-needed reconstruction of the I-285/GA 400 interchange and the construction of the missing ramps to the I-85/GA 400 interchange.

Trying to quell public opposition to the GA 400 project was also the reason why the state agreed to have the MARTA heavy rail line placed in the median of the GA 400 Extension between Buckhead and Perimeter Center....Because the state knew that the inclusion of a new rail transit line as part of the potentially highly-controversial road construction project would keep a lid on project-killing opposition from Intown and regional anti-roadbuilding groups (the Sierra Club, the NAACP, etc).

In any case, the announcement of the accelerated construction and completion of the I-285/GA 400 interchange greatly helps out Georgia Governor Nathan Deal who is currently locked in a tight general election race with Georgia State Senator Jason Carter while getting through a much less-competitive but still very politically-bloody GOP Primary against two vastly-underfunded opponents.

Before this announcement, the already long-overdue reconstruction of the I-285/GA 400 interchange was not projected to even break ground for almost another 20 years as GDOT claimed that it would not have the money for the project until at least 2031.

Speeding up the timetable of the long-overdue reconstruction of the I-285/GA 400 interchange helps the sitting governor with the powerful Northside voters in the critically politically-important crescent of East Cobb, North Fulton, Cherokee and Forsyth counties who use the I-285/GA 400 interchange on a daily basis to commute into and out of I-285 Perimeter.

If Nathan Deal can keep his ethics issues out of the media, the announcement of the long-overdue accelerated reconstruction of the I-285/GA 400 interchange should give him the margin he needs to overcome his substantial political vulnerabilities and win re-election in November.

[sedimenjerry]

Originally Posted by toll_booth

(2) 400 south to 285 east. Ah, the good old cloverleaf (270-degree) interchange. Drivers seem to have their own determination for how fast they should drive around this ramp. And the last-minute lane-changers are common here, too.

Did that just after 2:15 today and nearly got in a wreck as a Maserati (seriously) had to go from 400S to 285W. Stopped traffic in the lane for 285E. This happens a lot anyway as traffic has to slow down to 20-30 (throw in an 18 wheeler and it's game over) and there's only one lane to choose from. It's a bad and outdated design. No high traffic highway to highway ramp should be a loop requiring drivers to decrease speed from 60+ to 30 then back up to 60+. Spaghetti junction backs up every day with a flyover ramp and 2 lanes. Can't imagine having just one loop ramp. Unfortunately with the design I don't see much that they can do without redoing the whole thing. It doesn't have to be like the High 5 interchange in Dallas but major construction is inevitable.