New Clifton Corridor Light Rail Alternatives (Atlanta, Decatur: real estate, 2013, crime)

[kferq]

Marta has posted new Clifton Corridor alternatives with an interesting twist. Instead of extensive tunneling/overhead, alternative 1B runs at grade for most of the distance. It also runs past Children's and Emory hospitals and down North Decatur Road to Suburban Plaza. The cost is significantly reduced in this alternative with a slight increase in projected ridership. Because it will share a lane with traffic on Clifton itself, the speed decreases slightly.

http://www.itsmarta.com/uploadedFile...0-2013_rev.pdf

I can see the neighborhoods not liking the alternative, but the cost savings are remarkable.

[arjay57]

I like it. Thanks for posting this, kferq.

[aries4118]

Dislike.

[Nanosolar]

Why not just build marta heavy rail?

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by Nanosolar

Why not just build marta heavy rail?

Yes.


Or a light metro line?


There is already a tailor-made corridor perfect for heavy rail or light metro line.



Medium-capacity rail transport system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[alco89]

That's a mighty tight turn they'd have to pull off in Option 1B/1C at the corner of Clifton and N Decatur Rd, whether it's underground or at-grade.

[MattCW]

The first section, Lindbergh to Sage Hill/Briarcliff isn't anything more than moving the RoW around slightly to pull the cost down. If that works, great, I prefer the scenery anyways!

The second section however, I don't think is a real improvement. The low-hanging fruit isn't always the best fruit to pick. The shared lanes concept makes me skittish. Clifton is busy enough without adding through-vehicles in the mix. Then as alco89 pointed out, that's a very tight, greater-than-90 degree turn from Clifton onto North Decatur. Then there's North Decatur Road itself. It's just way too tight already to toss light rail vehicles into the mix, which leaves 1C, but that's more expensive than the route under the railroad. While serving Emory Hospital proper would be nice, how many patients would actually use it? Meaning, most of the people going there would be able to walk from the closest station anyways, or use one of Emory's shuttles.

East of the North Decatur Station, North Decatur Road isn't any wider. Scott Boulevard is not only wider, but the LPA wouldn't intrude on the intersections at-grade. The station at Superior road is a definite plus, and should be written into the LPA.

Like the document says, I can't see where option 1D makes any sense either. Sure it keeps the tracks off the street, but there is no reason for any infill stations along it later.

One alternative to the problems with North Decatur road, is perhaps a compromise between 1B and C: Tunnel under just the intersections. It would also help with the sharp turn from Clifton onto North Decatur.

I've updated my map showing active high capacity transit projects around the city (streetcar is another map) showing the new alignment options: http://goo.gl/maps/5Dixo

Originally Posted by Nanosolar

Why not just build marta heavy rail?

Because then you would need a fully dedicated right of way, with no in-street running at all. While I would have liked to see a heavy rail route between Avondale and Lindbergh, it's just impossible, and would cost considerably more.

Originally Posted by aries4118

Yes.


Or a light metro line?


There is already a tailor-made corridor perfect for heavy rail or light metro line.



Medium-capacity rail transport system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Same problem as above, no street running option, and way too expensive.

[Born 2 Roll]

Originally Posted by Nanosolar

Why not just build marta heavy rail?

Originally Posted by aries4118

Yes.

Or a light metro line?

There is already a tailor-made corridor perfect for heavy rail or light metro line.

...Exactly.

The portion of existing freight rail right-of-way that the proposed passenger rail expansion is slated to operate on and/or within that runs directly through the campus of Emory University is also proposed to someday be the site of high-capacity passenger rail service in the form of the "Brain Train" passenger rail line that will operate between Atlanta and Athens and provide high-capacity passenger rail transit service to 6 of Georgia's most notable university centers.

The aforementioned plans to connect the Emory University campus to the MARTA heavy rail system by way of the Lindbergh and Avondale MARTA stations at each end of a new light rail line are a darned good start, but by no means should this proposed light rail line be the end-game in the long-term.

This proposed light rail line is much-needed and should be implemented as soon as possible, but this proposed light rail line (both its proposal and implementation) should also only be but a precursor to a much more comprehensive transit connectivity plan that involves the implementation of a high-capacity passenger rail transit line connecting the Atlanta Airport with the University of Georgia by way of a couple of rail transit stations on the Emory University campus.

Also of concern is, as the original poster stated, the neighborhoods lining the portion of the proposed light rail line that runs within the right-of-way of the existing CSX freight rail bed might have some objections to the light rail line being operated above ground, objections which potentially could be a very-substantial roadblock to this proposed light rail line being built and becoming operational.

Instead of trying to build the proposed light rail line as cheaply as possible with financial resources that likely don't even exist at this point, we might be able get much more if the proposed line was term-leased along with the future "Brain Train" high-capacity passenger rail transit line (which is proposed to operate within the same existing freight rail line right-of-way that this light rail line is proposed on) out to a private investor/private operating entity who would pay all costs of designing, constructing, operating and maintaining the proposed light rail line and future "Brain Train" high-capacity passenger rail line connecting the Atlanta Airport and the University of Georgia in Athens.

We also very likely would be able to get the existing freight rail line, the proposed light rail line and the future high-capacity passenger rail line tunneled underground and replaced with linear park space/greenspace in the form of a recreational greenway along the existing freight rail right-of-way in question where passenger rail service is slated to operate if we used private financing backed with user fees (in the form of distance-based fares) and profits and property tax revenues from the transit-owned real estate assets (revenue-producing land around transit stations) along the proposed light rail and high-capacity passenger rail routes.

[Jillgineer]

Clifton Corridor should be used as a lesson to other growing parts of the city: get on the transit bandwagon early! The neighborhoods through there have rejected transit proposal after transit proposal and the result is year after year, decade after decade, traffic gets worse. And each time a solution is proposed, the cost is several times higher than before, even accounting for inflation. And the number of options goes down. It's too expensive now for heavy rail but they could have had it in the past. Now they never will.

Hopefully when a plan is presented to the areas west of the Connector, they'll see the mess along Clifton and will learn from it how not to "save the neighborhood". The quality of life through there has been significantly reduced because of an obsession with cars and the perception of crime coming from transit. People living there are practically prisoners in their homes for a significant part of the day and much of that is their own fault.

[Born 2 Roll]

Originally Posted by Jillgineer

Clifton Corridor should be used as a lesson to other growing parts of the city: get on the transit bandwagon early! The neighborhoods through there have rejected transit proposal after transit proposal and the result is year after year, decade after decade, traffic gets worse. And each time a solution is proposed, the cost is several times higher than before, even accounting for inflation. And the number of options goes down. It's too expensive now for heavy rail but they could have had it in the past. Now they never will.

Hopefully when a plan is presented to the areas west of the Connector, they'll see the mess along Clifton and will learn from it how not to "save the neighborhood". The quality of life through there has been significantly reduced because of an obsession with cars and the perception of crime coming from transit. People living there are practically prisoners in their homes for a significant part of the day and much of that is their own fault.

That area will (eventually) get passenger rail transit (someday) because the existing freight rail ROW that runs through the Emory campus and that area is slated to (someday) be the site of the "Brain Train" high-capacity passenger rail line between Atlanta and Athens.

Besides, with the traffic being so increasingly bad and the neighborhood being even more hard-core against expanding the series of often-gridlocked 2-lane and 4-lane roads that feed into the area around Emory, there really isn't any other choice but to extend some type of high-capacity passenger rail transit into the area.

When transit is eventually extended through the area on that existing CSX rail ROW that runs right through Emory's campus, there's a good chance that heavy rail transit will figure into the equation.

Though, like you said, it'll be expensive (VERY expensive) as tunneling will be required and the expense will be so great that private money will have to used as public money is virtually completely non-existent at this point.