To the rescue--the City of Atlanta carries the ball (again) (Decatur: condo, to buy)

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by MathmanMathman

I really don't buy the idea that Atlanta stuck its neck out with the airport. It's a cash cow that probably could make even more if Atlanta would let a private company run it.

Yes and no...

It is a cash cow now, but it wasn't always. It also forces us to take on large amounts of bond debt w/o complete guarantees the airlines will always fly here as much.

I think Atlanta stuck it's neck out 3 major times, the last being most relevant. With success we've created huge rewards for the city and the region.

1) When Candler Field was first built in the 1920's
Candler Field - 3 postcards

2) The second major version of the airport with a new terminal built in the 1960s (It actually was very similar to Charlotte's airport in shape and design.
Atlanta Airport - 1969 aerial photo
Southern airways plane flies over downtown Atlanta


3) The final major investment as rebuilding the terminal, concourses, roadways, and parking from the ground up in the late 1970's. The current Mid-field terminal and concourses. We could have kept expanding similar to what Charlotte did, but we said no... it's better to make a massive investment and startover from scratch and we would be better off far into the future. At the time, it was the largest construction project in the South. It costs over $500 million, which is about $2B today.
Literature heralding the new terminal
Aerial view postcard of the 1980 terminal

and today we are still slowly rolling out improvements in the Billions. Luckily, today we are more solidified with Delta. But even in negotiations for these improvements and usage fees Delta commonly keeps its secondary hubs open and threatens to move more traffic to places like Memphis.

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by ATLTJL

I don't get it....

Is the argument that Atlanta is the economic engine of the region and state?

I don't think anybody has ever argued against that notion.

As for the city vs. state and regional government debate, I think this is pretty par for the course in most major cities. How much does NYC benefit people who live in Connecticut and New Jersey who don't contribute to local or even state taxes? Almost every major city has bedroom communities in neighboring counties where the people aren't contributing as much to the city economy. That's kind of the way it has gone. But it's a 2 way street because the city also relies heavily on both the intellectual labor from people who prefer to live in more suburban areas and the cheap labor of people who can't afford to live in city limits. Imagine how much more expensive everything in Atlanta would be if every wage paid to everyone had to support an intown lifestyle?

Anyway, no new information here, so I don't really get it.

This is the same in other cities too. I think here things are worse, because the city is so small and the suburbs are so big.

The issue is the central city helps pay for things that benefit the whole region, without financial benefits in return. This lets suburbs have the same access and lower taxes.

There is a reason Atlanta has high taxes, yet has a tough time with basic improvements on roads.

I think the biggest thing is Atlanta has paid for much of the regions poor and traditionally the suburbs haven't.

The biggest thing I would point to is hospitals. Atlanta pays for the regions major trauma center, which must accept the poorest who can't pay as patients. The major suburban counties, in all fairness, have fairly sizable level 2 trauma centers. But many of the new suburban and exurban counties don't. They rely on the core cities/counties for those services.

I just mentioned this, because Grady is often cited by N. Fulton as something they don't want to pay for. However, in all fairness... it is truly a regional asset, if not a state asset.

[cqholt]

Since when is spending $200 million, on a pure private project, for NO benefit to the city, leadership (in the right direction)? If part of the stadium deal included a new co-located baseball stadium as well as creation of a sports-centric commercial area, I might could agree with the plan, but pandering to business interests, while the infrastructure continues to be neglected is leadership only if you're trying to fail!

The Ted is a good stadium surrounded by poor design of huge parking lots. Yet, if those parking lots were removed people would complain about tailgating. So until the turner field redevelopment plan starts that area will always be useless.

But it's a 2 way street because the city also relies heavily on both the intellectual labor from people who prefer to live in more suburban areas

Its not that way anymore. All the studies show that the young professionals want to live in a more urban, diverse, walkalble, transit setting. That may have been true for your generation and older, but the majority people my age with bachelor degrees and higher prefer urban areas.

[ATLTJL]

How old do you think I am? I haven't even hit 40 yet, I'm not exactly part of a generation not contributing to society anymore.

There are still a heck of a lot of doctors, lawyers, etc. who prefer not to live in urban settings and couldn't care less about riding transit.

The city relies heavily on professionals that commute from outside the city. That's a fact.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by ATLTJL

How old do you think I am? I haven't even hit 40 yet, I'm not exactly part of a generation not contributing to society anymore.

There are still a heck of a lot of doctors, lawyers, etc. who prefer not to live in urban settings and couldn't care less about riding transit.

The city relies heavily on professionals that commute from outside the city. That's a fact.

Well you sure post like it!
But your not part of Millennials either. That's the generation that most of the studies I've referenced are researching.
Your right about the outside commuters, I see the traffic everyday on 400 and 85 from MARTA.

[ATLTJL]

Because I would rather afford a decent sized home than a shoebox in the city or a house in a transitional sketchy neighborhood, I post like an old man?

There are still plenty of people out there, including young people, that are interested in that sort of quality of life.

I mean, I know what's going on, so I'll grant you that the urban lifestyle is picking up steam and has gotten a lot more popular, but it's not the only way people are choosing to live. It may be what you and some others have chosen, but still not everybody is choosing it. Especially when you consider a city like Atlanta where you have highly successful people living in places like Brookhaven and Sandy Springs, who are still not contributing to the actual city of Atlanta.

As for the Millenials, most of them aren't really contributing much to the economy yet.

I know that in Kirkwood you are seeing a lot of young families moving in. But guess what....I live in Gwinnett, up in Duluth, and the last 3 houses that have been purchased in my neighborhood were bought by young couples with babies. I'm not sure if they commute into the city for work or not, but I do (during off-peak hours).

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by ATLTJL

Because I would rather afford a decent sized home than a shoebox in the city or a house in a transitional sketchy neighborhood, I post like an old man?

There are still plenty of people out there, including young people, that are interested in that sort of quality of life.

I mean, I know what's going on, so I'll grant you that the urban lifestyle is picking up steam and has gotten a lot more popular, but it's not the only way people are choosing to live. It may be what you and some others have chosen, but still not everybody is choosing it. Especially when you consider a city like Atlanta where you have highly successful people living in places like Brookhaven and Sandy Springs, who are still not contributing to the actual city of Atlanta.

As for the Millenials, most of them aren't really contributing much to the economy yet.

I know that in Kirkwood you are seeing a lot of young families moving in. But guess what....I live in Gwinnett, up in Duluth, and the last 3 houses that have been purchased in my neighborhood were bought by young couples with babies. I'm not sure if they commute into the city for work or not, but I do (during off-peak hours).

I refuse to debate with you about this when adds nothing constructive to the conversation.
Research shows that the pendulum is swinging the other way in city vs suburb development. Atlanta grew 2X as fast as its suburbs since 2010.
I am glad the city stepped up and took on the lead for the stadium, when the state refused to act because the many of the Republicans were worries about getting re-elected in this tea bagger political atmosphere.

[Ant131531]

Had young professionals stayed in the suburbs and not moved to Atlanta, Atlanta would have hit the tipping point and likely went the way of Detroit.

[ATLTJL]

There's nothing to debate.

I agree that the pendulum is starting to swing and the urban environment is on an upswing. But.....

but the majority people my age with bachelor degrees and higher prefer urban areas.

If you can show me scientific data that proves that more than 50% of people your age with bachelor degrees prefer urban areas, and actually live in them, then we can say that maybe Atlanta relies on the suburbs less than the suburbs rely on Atlanta.

The bolded part is important. Preferences don't mean diddly squat unless people are acting on them. My prefernce would be to live in a penthouse in the Sovereign or the St. Regis condos, but that preference is doing the city of Atlanta precious little in actually having me live there.

My argument is if you eliminated everything outside the city limits of Atlanta then the city wouldn't have enough brain or labor power to operate at all. Therefore, by sheer nature of contributing to building the city, these people are a part of the city's growth and development just as the people who live and pay taxes in the city are. That's the relevance.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by ATLTJL

There's nothing to debate.

I agree that the pendulum is starting to swing and the urban environment is on an upswing. But.....



If you can show me scientific data that proves that more than 50% of people your age with bachelor degrees prefer urban areas, and actually live in them, then we can say that maybe Atlanta relies on the suburbs less than the suburbs rely on Atlanta.

The bolded part is important. Preferences don't mean diddly squat unless people are acting on them. My prefernce would be to live in a penthouse in the Sovereign or the St. Regis condos, but that preference is doing the city of Atlanta precious little in actually having me live there.

My argument is if you eliminated everything outside the city limits of Atlanta then the city wouldn't have enough brain or labor power to operate at all. Therefore, by sheer nature of contributing to building the city, these people are a part of the city's growth and development just as the people who live and pay taxes in the city are. That's the relevance.

Anyways, back to OP. Will the new stadium have a 80 yard long TV?