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If there was to be a MARTA line leaving Cumberland Mall going East...what route would be the best? How would you design it? LRT, HRT, BRT? In the median of existing streets? Dedicated ROW? Where would it terminate? Remember...as we all know...this is a fantasy line...but you never know. Have fun and lets see what some people can come up with. Post a Google map. I'm gonna work on one too
If there was to be a MARTA line leaving Cumberland Mall going East...what route would be the best? How would you design it? LRT, HRT, BRT? In the median of existing streets? Dedicated ROW? Where would it terminate? Remember...as we all know...this is a fantasy line...but you never know. Have fun and lets see what some people can come up with. Post a Google map. I'm gonna work on one too
That would be a miracle, I think Marta best shot will be a Doraville to Gwinett line. Daily traffic is just atrocious and awful.
MARTA Expansion - Google Maps That's my entire fantasy MARTA system, all Heavy Rail. I also have fantasy commuter rail lines, but I'm still tweaking them and their running times.
For Cumberland specifically, I'd have a new line turn Northwest after exiting the existing Red/Gold tunnel, and tunnel under the Piedmont Hospital area before generally following Northside Parkway. I placed stops at the big intersections, but you could probably eliminate, Wesley and Moores Mill and probably Vinnings Junction to improve run times and not have to build large stations for low-ridership. This could be extended up Cobb Parkway to the Marietta Transfer Center/Southern Polytech with stops at Windy Hill, and Delk Roads.
I've also included a loop route along I-285. Someone in the Dunwoody area shouldn't have to go all the way into Atlanta to head into Cobb County for instance. The Dunwoody area I've included two options on. Going down through Medical Center could perhaps allow reuse of the existing short E-W segment of track through the Medical Center station, but for ridership sake, the better choice is to try and find a route that intersects the Dunwoody Station directly.
Downtown, I'd route a new line around the west side of the city providing service along Marietta Blvd, Georgia Tech, and Atlantic Station. This line could also provide service to a new Atlantic City Amtrak station, or the existing Amtrak Station if Amtrak doesn't move into the MMPT.
The pink line off to the west along I-20 would include an I-285 and Six Flags park and ride.
The Green I-20 East line is what I'd like to see, but I know it is virtually impossible to build into downtown along I-20 without destroying large amounts of houses and/or shrinking the interstate lanes to an unsafe level.
I've also included a Clifton Corridor HRT that would allow a one-seat ride from H.E. Holmes, and more importantly Downtown Atlanta through Emory, then up through Lindbergh.
The Memorial Drive line would not only bring rail service to Stone Mountain Park, but also provide an alternative to commuters from Snellville to going through surface streets, or coming down to I-20 or up to I-85 to get to Atlanta.
The Redan Road line is a little harder to justify, but it would be a logical extension off of the Indian Creek station in terms of routing.
There's there GA-400 line which is fairly obvious, and probably not far from what will be built anyways.
Then there's a short extension of the Red/Gold lines to the Airport's proposed Southgate complex (ICK!) which would also be a transfer to the loop line.
i posted this a while back, but everytime i go to the drawing board i come up with something different. i really do like the idea of a line that goes from arts center west, and uses the old brookwood station as a new marta station (since it will be shut down as an amtrak station within the next 10 years).
MARTA Expansion - Google Maps That's my entire fantasy MARTA system, all Heavy Rail. I also have fantasy commuter rail lines, but I'm still tweaking them and their running times.
For Cumberland specifically, I'd have a new line turn Northwest after exiting the existing Red/Gold tunnel, and tunnel under the Piedmont Hospital area before generally following Northside Parkway. I placed stops at the big intersections, but you could probably eliminate, Wesley and Moores Mill and probably Vinnings Junction to improve run times and not have to build large stations for low-ridership. This could be extended up Cobb Parkway to the Marietta Transfer Center/Southern Polytech with stops at Windy Hill, and Delk Roads.
I've also included a loop route along I-285. Someone in the Dunwoody area shouldn't have to go all the way into Atlanta to head into Cobb County for instance. The Dunwoody area I've included two options on. Going down through Medical Center could perhaps allow reuse of the existing short E-W segment of track through the Medical Center station, but for ridership sake, the better choice is to try and find a route that intersects the Dunwoody Station directly.
Downtown, I'd route a new line around the west side of the city providing service along Marietta Blvd, Georgia Tech, and Atlantic Station. This line could also provide service to a new Atlantic City Amtrak station, or the existing Amtrak Station if Amtrak doesn't move into the MMPT.
The pink line off to the west along I-20 would include an I-285 and Six Flags park and ride.
The Green I-20 East line is what I'd like to see, but I know it is virtually impossible to build into downtown along I-20 without destroying large amounts of houses and/or shrinking the interstate lanes to an unsafe level.
I've also included a Clifton Corridor HRT that would allow a one-seat ride from H.E. Holmes, and more importantly Downtown Atlanta through Emory, then up through Lindbergh.
The Memorial Drive line would not only bring rail service to Stone Mountain Park, but also provide an alternative to commuters from Snellville to going through surface streets, or coming down to I-20 or up to I-85 to get to Atlanta.
The Redan Road line is a little harder to justify, but it would be a logical extension off of the Indian Creek station in terms of routing.
There's there GA-400 line which is fairly obvious, and probably not far from what will be built anyways.
Then there's a short extension of the Red/Gold lines to the Airport's proposed Southgate complex (ICK!) which would also be a transfer to the loop line.
What about the Gold line going south beyond the airport and northeast beyond Doraville?
For those lines, personally, I would have the line split at some point south of the airport. One terminating at Peachtree City, the other terminating at Atlanta Motor Speedway.
To the north, run the line through Norcross, Duluth and split somewhere along the vicinity of Lawrenceville. One half running up to Gainesville, the other to either Winder or Athens (although at this point, it'd be more efficient as commuter rail that far away from Atlanta's city center.
you have to zoom in and click on the question marks to get the whole idea.
i really 100% agree that we need a perimeter line— i think that needs to be a fairly high priority if cobb ever comes into the marta system. however, i don't see the point in having a line that goes all the way south of I-20 and whatnot.
in fact, let me spit out some of my ideas, just a rail spam. be back in a little while.
This represents a light rail line, plus some existing + future expansions on other lines (hence all the nifty colors, particularly on the Doraville heavy rail line). Note that with the exception of the 285/400 area, the line parallels 285 on the north side. This will be at-grade wherever possible, elevated otherwise (particularly in the area near I-75). Looking closer at the Perimeter area:
There are all sorts of routes this could take. The King and Queen towers are just northeast of the 285/400 interchange, and this would bring them within walking distance of a transit line--something that is currently just out of reach. Note that because of the unique design of the Hammond Drive bridge, there is more than enough room for this line to go under Hammond without interfering with 400. Also, this route hooks up some of the fairly dense offices and mixed-use areas. Its major drawback is the need to add some right-of-way through a shopping center, which will remove some parking spaces--but in a sense, converting parking to transit can make a strong, positive statement.
Any surface street that takes on this line as a streetcar would have to lose a lane, meaning that a busy road such as Perimeter Center W is out of the question. This routing would also go right into Dunwoody station and not far from Sandy Springs. Hammond might work from 400 to Ashford-Dunwoody, but again, the less a major street is used up, the better.
i posted this a while back, but everytime i go to the drawing board i come up with something different. i really do like the idea of a line that goes from arts center west, and uses the old brookwood station as a new marta station (since it will be shut down as an amtrak station within the next 10 years).
What about the Gold line going south beyond the airport and northeast beyond Doraville?
For those lines, personally, I would have the line split at some point south of the airport. One terminating at Peachtree City, the other terminating at Atlanta Motor Speedway.
To the north, run the line through Norcross, Duluth and split somewhere along the vicinity of Lawrenceville. One half running up to Gainesville, the other to either Winder or Athens (although at this point, it'd be more efficient as commuter rail that far away from Atlanta's city center.
Peachtree City, AMS, Gainesville, Lawrenceville, and Athens are all way to far away for MARTA-style rail service to run. Can you imagine sitting on the hard plastic seats for the full hour these routes will take to reach Atlanta? The cost of right of way would be enormous as well. It is illegal to run MARTA trains with freight trains unless those trains are only run during the periods when MARTA trains do not run which the freight railroads will never agree to. Running the new MARTA right of way alongside the freight right of way seems like an obvious choice, but it's not as easy as you think. No MARTA trackage is at-grade. It either runs at the same level of grade-separated railroad right of way, or flies way overhead on viaducts, or tunnels underground. The ridership of the far-flung locales wouldn't suit this much investment, there just wouldn't be enough economic benefit from the new travelers to support double-track, fully separated right of way as far as these outer suburbs and exurbs for the massive investment this would take. Just the I-20 East rail component, which will run basically in GDOT right of way alongside I-285 and I-20, with only 10 property displacements, and 6 new stations will cost $1.8 billion I believe. That's for 12 miles of rail. Assuming the same costs for these destinations, you're easily looking at $21 billion, and probably much much more once you calculate it all out and include other factors that don't exist on this route.
In contrast, you could just use the existing freight right of way, running commuter trains on freight tracks with some funded improvements, and build out a system to Acworth, Gainesville, Athens, Covington, Jackson, Griffin, Newnan, Peachtree City, and Villa Rica for maybe $4 billion dollars total. And that's for a fairly nice, multiple-off peak service with new equipment. Really scrimping and buying used equipment might knock off another billion.
By the way, I know the tone of this post is kinda harsh and it's not really directed at you. I'm primarily heading off the inevitable "just use the freight lines" arguments that always pop up in these threads.
Peachtree City, AMS, Gainesville, Lawrenceville, and Athens are all way to far away for MARTA-style rail service to run. Can you imagine sitting on the hard plastic seats for the full hour these routes will take to reach Atlanta? The cost of right of way would be enormous as well. It is illegal to run MARTA trains with freight trains unless those trains are only run during the periods when MARTA trains do not run which the freight railroads will never agree to. Running the new MARTA right of way alongside the freight right of way seems like an obvious choice, but it's not as easy as you think. No MARTA trackage is at-grade. It either runs at the same level of grade-separated railroad right of way, or flies way overhead on viaducts, or tunnels underground. The ridership of the far-flung locales wouldn't suit this much investment, there just wouldn't be enough economic benefit from the new travelers to support double-track, fully separated right of way as far as these outer suburbs and exurbs for the massive investment this would take. Just the I-20 East rail component, which will run basically in GDOT right of way alongside I-285 and I-20, with only 10 property displacements, and 6 new stations will cost $1.8 billion I believe. That's for 12 miles of rail. Assuming the same costs for these destinations, you're easily looking at $21 billion, and probably much much more once you calculate it all out and include other factors that don't exist on this route.
In contrast, you could just use the existing freight right of way, running commuter trains on freight tracks with some funded improvements, and build out a system to Acworth, Gainesville, Athens, Covington, Jackson, Griffin, Newnan, Peachtree City, and Villa Rica for maybe $4 billion dollars total. And that's for a fairly nice, multiple-off peak service with new equipment. Really scrimping and buying used equipment might knock off another billion.
By the way, I know the tone of this post is kinda harsh and it's not really directed at you. I'm primarily heading off the inevitable "just use the freight lines" arguments that always pop up in these threads.
No worries. I understood it wasn't directed at me and wasn't overly harsh either.
Either way, I suppose I got a bit carried away thinking about it which is why I mentioned commuter rail in my last sentence. MARTA HRT could feasibly run out as far as Gwinnett Arena but probably not much further than that. Likewise for Snellville and Conyers to the east, Douglasville to the west, Jonesboro/Stockbridge to the south, and Kennesaw to the northwest.
My apologies to the OP for spurring the topic slightly off.
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