Transportation Referendum - Support! (Atlanta: section 8, credit, statistics)

[Onthemove2014]

Originally Posted by arjay57

Right, but when it the last time you heard a conservative pushing for more mass transit, bike lanes, sidewalks or "alternative modes of transportation"?

The conservatives that don't live in the South do. They actually see the benifit.

[cqholt]

The conservatives that don't live in the South do. They actually see the benifit.

Maybe its a southern thing to wanna drive our pickup trucks with gun racks everywhere, or just south GA.

[Cameron H]

Originally Posted by arjay57

It's more of the softening up of America. When conservatives want to go somewhere they simply get in the car and go. They don't need special taxpayer funded 8 foot wide "multiuse bike trails." If they did they would build them with their own money.

Like they build highways, freeways and bridges with their own money? Can't tell if this is serious...

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by Cameron H

Like they build highways, freeways and bridges with their own money? Can't tell if this is serious...

Maybe not dollar for dollar, but isn't the assumption that conservatives are paying the lion's share of the taxes that go for these roads and bridges?

[K-SawDude]

Originally Posted by arjay57

Maybe not dollar for dollar, but isn't the assumption that conservatives are paying the lion's share of the taxes that go for these roads and bridges?

Well, that assumption is patently false. Or at least it's often false, as very often richer demographics, who pay a higher share of taxes, are liberals. Very often it's conservatives who both complain about "welfare queens" and live as those very same welfare queens, as they take a large share of government subsidy for their livelihood. Lots of data on this sort of stuff is out there: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/12/us...n-it.html?_r=1

Honestly, the real problem here is one of ideology.

Conservatives like to talk as if society would be ideal if individualism alone ruled the day. That means that every political and social decision should be based on each single person maximizing his or her personal autonomy and self-reliance in all possible contexts. If you want something, just pay for it yourself! Or build it yourself!

The problem is that the real world doesn't work that way all the time. Not every aspect of civilization can be produced via self-reliance. Take sidewalks, for example. What if everyone were empowered to just go build their own sidewalk wherever they wanted? It would be total chaos.

Same for things like basic necessities like clean water and mass transportation. And we're not even broaching the ethical issue of the effects of individualism on other realms like the environment. Maybe you want to go build a sidewalk, but what if your reckless building of it impacts a fragile ecosystem, a public water supply? Why should you care if it doesn't affect you?

My point is that some aspects of our society are necessarily collectivist rather than individualist. Non-crazy conservatives realize that fact. They know when it's important to reign in this INDIVIDUAL-IS-SUPREME mentality to talk about how collectives--such as private companies and government--can work together on such larger goals.

In stark contrast, the crazy conservatives, be they in Cobb County or elsewhere, refuse to acknowledge the logical flaws in their puristic obsession with individualism.

Of course, the irony is that many of those same conservatives regularly throw out their commitment to individual liberty when it comes to issues like gay marriage. But that's a whole nother discussion.

[neil0311]

Originally Posted by arjay57

Maybe not dollar for dollar, but isn't the assumption that conservatives are paying the lion's share of the taxes that go for these roads and bridges?

That could be a good assumption, given that in terms of personal vehicle use, the people who drive and buy gasoline are the ones paying the gasoline taxes, not to mention the other taxes paid. The folks taking MARTA every day or driving a Chevy Volt are not the ones paying the lion's share of the gasoline taxes, now are they?

[cqholt]

The folks taking MARTA every day or driving a Chevy Volt are not the ones paying the lion's share of the gasoline taxes, now are they?

Their decision to cut their dependency to a violate commodity. Don't fault them for their decision. everybody still pays sales tax, no matter a welfare recipient or wealthy businessperson.

[neil0311]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Their decision to cut their dependency to a violate commodity. Don't fault them for their decision. everybody still pays sales tax, no matter a welfare recipient or wealthy businessperson.

I didn't make a judgment about their choice of transportation, now did I? I just made a comment that relates to the fact that the gasoline taxes (which pay for a large amount of the roads and road maintenance) are paid for by the drivers who buy gasoline.

How does a "welfare recipient" (or anyone) pay gasoline taxes if that person isn't driving? "Everybody" doesn't pay those taxes, just drivers.

[cqholt]

How does a "welfare recipient" (or anyone) pay gasoline taxes if that person isn't driving? "Everybody" doesn't pay those taxes, just drivers.

Damn you must not read good, I said everyone pays sales tax!

[JPD]

Really, this is how low you guys are going to sink? A p*ssing contest over which political party pays more gasoline tax?

Pathetic.